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Where can you go in Europe by train in 8h?

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Re: Where can you go in Europe by train in 8h?

#291

Post by drtgh »

pembrook wrote: post #262
drtgh wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://jalopnik.com/did-musk-propose-hyperloop-to-stop-cali... At the time, it seemed that Musk had dished out the Hyperloop proposal just to make the public and legislators rethink the high-speed train. He didn’t actually intend to build the thing. It was more that he wanted to show people that more creative ideas were out there for things that might actually solve problems and push the state forward. With any luck…

Ahh the smoking gun...another conspiracy theory? Trying to convince internet leftists that a cabal of Evil Capitalists are not behind all of the worlds ills is like trying to convince internet right wingers that most vaccines work.

Left, right, does such a dichotomy even matter?

An influential person admitted that he had interfered the development of the high-speed railway at US with a vaporware project, which reported to him juicy economic revenues generated by investments and subsidies from all over the world. Just with vaporware.

Should people think that this kind of interference does not happen with influential pockets because you call it a conspiracy, while they call it just business?

Re: Where can you go in Europe by train in 8h?

#292

Post by throwup238 »

bpye wrote: post #217
Beijinger wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I’d arrive in a new city each morning feeling refreshed because of the train’s sleeping accommodations." Aeh, where were you travelling? Many countries did not have sleeper trains. Don't get me wrong. I did the same, travelling at night in trains, and it saved me a night in a hotel. But I did not arrive well rested, I arrived train wrecked.

I spent a couple weeks travelling by train across Europe a few years ago on an Interrail pass. I found sleeper cabins were generally pretty comfortable, though you do have to pay extra for them. If you were just sleeping in a seat then yes I can believe you felt awful the next day.

That sounds like my experience on Russian trains (traveling between Moscow and Vilnius) except the men were drunk. As a ten year old kid traveling with his mom, it was threatening!

Re: Where can you go in Europe by train in 8h?

#293

Post by mitthrowaway2 »

aetherson wrote: post #244
thatcat wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China, Russia, and India have high speed rail. Can you cite the reasons that these large countries are capable of building high speed rail while the US is not? Where is the recent innovation in US air travel? It has gotten considerably worse over the last 30 years. Supersonic passenger flights stopped in 2003 around the same time that TSA added hours to every flight.

I mean, the recent innovation in US air travel is that the TSA no longer adds hours to every flight. Like, is it maddening that we're curing a self-inflicted problem? Sure, of course it is. But the railfan community is also stuck in 2010. Every flight I've been on in the last 10 years I've walked through a metal detector, not a scanner, I've kept my shoes and belt on, my laptop in my bag. It's like 2000 all over agai…

Still, we don't put airports in the middle of built-up downtown areas, and for good reason. You usually have to hail a taxi or bus from an airport, whereas you can step out of a (good) train station and be right where you want to be.

Re: Where can you go in Europe by train in 8h?

#294

Post by yumraj »

ascorbic wrote: post #256
yumraj wrote: post #179

Question: many of these could be day trips, if train schedule permits, if one is trying to cover many cities during a single trip. I know it’s not an ideal way to visit Europe, but just humor me please. What’s a good city to make the base, which has good connectivity with as many different cities in different countries as possible, and is a good destination in itself?

Paris is probably your best bet by those criteria.

Thanks

Re: Where can you go in Europe by train in 8h?

#295

Post by mr_toad »

lotsoweiners wrote: post #130
yndoendo wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would travel more around the USA if we had a decedent high-speed rail system. Spent too much time flying, red-eyes, and driving for work, 7-12+ hours one way, and hate those modes of transportation. They may get you from point A to B but your time is wasted along with the enjoyment of the trip. Unfortunately the Oil industry won over the politicians in the USA with donations, legal bribes, and they prevent the buil…

I’m not sure about that. I’d imagine that trains are going to have the worst of both worlds. They will take a long time (closer to amount of time to drive to destination). They also will have costs approaching that of a flight. To me a train trip makes sense if you enjoy trains and feel that the travel itself is part of the reward.

Don’t forget to factor in all the additional time getting to the airport and dealing with check in and security.

Re: Where can you go in Europe by train in 8h?

#296

Post by aetherson »

mitthrowaway2 wrote: post #293
aetherson wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, the recent innovation in US air travel is that the TSA no longer adds hours to every flight. Like, is it maddening that we're curing a self-inflicted problem? Sure, of course it is. But the railfan community is also stuck in 2010. Every flight I've been on in the last 10 years I've walked through a metal detector, not a scanner, I've kept my shoes and belt on, my laptop in my bag. It's like 2000 all over agai…

Still, we don't put airports in the middle of built-up downtown areas, and for good reason. You usually have to hail a taxi or bus from an airport, whereas you can step out of a (good) train station and be right where you want to be.

Still nonsense.

Train stations and airports are where they are. Lots of them are quite close to downtowns. Others aren't. Nobody's changing their locations in existing large cities.

There are plenty of cities where the nearest airport is closer than the nearest long distance rail station. There are plenty of cities where they aren't.

Re: Where can you go in Europe by train in 8h?

#297

Post by JBlue42 »

ant6n wrote: post #214
JBlue42 wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious about the issues you're having with rolling stock. Given Germany's industrial prowess, I would've thought that that wouldn't be an issue to manufacture, either for domestic use or export.

For startups, building up the financing for buying rolling stock is very difficult. There’s currently very little available on the rental market. It’s difficult to just do a startup on general in this space (it’s sustainable mobility, but involves hardware, an old industry, old tech). The state railways can afford rolling stock, but it’s extensive and takes a long time. They are not too innovative either, so may not…

Ah, I had interpreted your statements as an issue of manufacture and availability, not financing.

As to finance, it does suck that we throw billions at economically, socially, and/or globally destructive, unprofitable startups and yet something that is a net good for society and environment can't get that funding. I guess that's where government steps in or private/public partnerships.

Good luck though!

Re: Where can you go in Europe by train in 8h?

#298

Post by vineyardmike »

thatcat wrote: post #134
lotsoweiners wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure about that. I’d imagine that trains are going to have the worst of both worlds. They will take a long time (closer to amount of time to drive to destination). They also will have costs approaching that of a flight. To me a train trip makes sense if you enjoy trains and feel that the travel itself is part of the reward.

Maintenance cost and fuel costs are considerably lower for trains, why would they cost the same amount?

I'm a 100% supporter of getting nice trains throughout America, but trains are relatively expensive for long distances. I don't know why, but if you compare ticket prices (globally!) its often not cheaper to take a train. In my experience, trains are a superior experience, and worth spending more on, but generally not cheaper. The ultra-low cost airlines (especially outside the US) are really hard to compete with on price.

For example, the Shinkansen in Japan (which I totally recommend!) is usually over $100 USD. Which is pretty similar to a flight price. This pattern repeats in Europe as well.

My friend just traveled London -> Edinburgh in the last few weeks, and found the train 2x the cost compared to RyanAir or EasyJet.

Even in the US, this pattern holds. Seattle -> LA costs $50-150 by plane, depending on the airline (3hrs). By train, it's 35hrs and $150. Its a lovely train ride, if you have a weekend to dedicate.

Re: Where can you go in Europe by train in 8h?

#299

Post by lmm »

voidfunc wrote: post #197
sdenton4 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the source. There were actual-court cases which found that oil and car manufacturers conspired to monopolize and convert local public transit to buses from rail. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_consp... "Between 1938 and 1950, National City Lines and its subsidiaries, American City Lines and Pacific City Lines—with investment from GM, Firestone Tire, Standard Oil of California (through a…

Street cars != Intercity Rail Also I'd argue street cars are way worse than busses which have route flexibility. The bigger problem is Americans don't like being around other Americans and really don't like public transit. It's not some giant conspiracy.

> Street cars != Intercity Rail

No, but the two feed into each other. Intercity rail loses most of its advantages if you have to hire a car at the destination.

> Also I'd argue street cars are way worse than busses which have route flexibility.

They're better for that very reason. You can move somewhere with a decent commute and know that the streetcar isn't going to disappear at the stroke of a pen.

Re: Where can you go in Europe by train in 8h?

#300

Post by Tijdreiziger »

bialpio wrote: post #165
caseyy wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought the same as I was reading the comment you're responding to. Arriving rested after public transport? Get a load of that guy :) Not sure how anyone does that, but of course it would be nice to learn this dark magic.

"sleeper train" is the key here. Another keyword to search for is "couchette", I think that's how it's called in some places. See e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Couchette_car and the map.

Couchettes are cheaper, lower-comfort bunks.

Most sleepers also offer cabins with proper beds (for a premium).

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