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"Hetzner decided to cancel our account and terminate all servers"

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Re: "Hetzner decided to cancel our account and terminate all servers"

#291

Post by egorfine »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #263
egorfine wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their ToS forbids not just the crypto mining (that was extremely reasonable to ban ten years ago, but it's moot today) but also some arbitrary financial technologies they don't like. So beware of their ToS.

> also some arbitrary financial technologies they don't like Such as?

Such as storing, uploading, downloading and serving transactions in a specific particular way called blockchain or distributed ledger. They have also explicitly forbidden storing blockchain data on their servers and having anything auxiliary related to it.

It is obviously a hostile language created by lawyers who did not spend much time researching the subject.

Of course it's unenforceable in practice and that is why a hefty chunk of Ethereum nodes are hosted on Hetzner for years and years with no problems.

Re: "Hetzner decided to cancel our account and terminate all servers"

#292

Post by matwood »

thephyber wrote: post #242
conductr wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt responsibility is a concern, GP just doesn’t enjoy being a part of the shit show

And my core point is that most companies are shit shows. Employees know what bullet points they should have to minimize downside risk, but struggle with how to get those done while also minimizing upside risk. In a world of scarcity, just keep communicating the tech debt. Maybe occasionally propose a project to address it.

The secret is to tie the tech debt to something that business wants. If that can’t be done then you have wonder how important it really is to address the debt.

Re: "Hetzner decided to cancel our account and terminate all servers"

#293

Post by ChocolateGod »

tmikaeld wrote: post #284
ChocolateGod wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scaleway/Dedibox/Online.net but the hardware is quite a bit older for the price. There's also Webtropia I have used in the past, also German, without issues. OVH would be the safest bet but their support is worst than Hetzner.

While most of these are great, none of them seem to have support for 4x NVMe drives which Hetzner has.

OVH Advanced range has support for 4x NVMEs

Re: "Hetzner decided to cancel our account and terminate all servers"

#294

Post by bzzzt »

ambicapter wrote: post #142
diggan wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another great question is "When did you last try to restore from a backup?" which usually is answered with "It's the built-in tooling, why would we assume it's broken?" or similar. Then fast-forward some months/years, and they try to restore from backups only to realize the backups never actually backed up what they cared about.

One thing I've never figured out is, what is the difference between backups and replication? And, does restoring from backups always mean losing more _recent_ data than replication?

Depends on the thing you're replicating and the technology you use. If you're replicating a database you get a bunch of 'log' files containing all the changes in chronological order. While you could throw those away after filling a single replica database you also can keep them and use them to recover a database snapshot from a while ago. You're not going to get data that recent with only full backups.

Re: "Hetzner decided to cancel our account and terminate all servers"

#295

Post by ze_grump »

qwertox wrote: post #163
diggan wrote: post #14

Most of the times you hear people complaining about Hetzner shutting down someone's servers, it's because they were hosting content going against their ToC or similar. But this seems to be about Kiwix (which in short is "offline Wikipedia" in various ways) and doesn't seem to be about questionable content in any way. Eventually I guess we'll get Hetzner's perspective on this, as they tend to start writing publicly ab…

> Besides Wikipedia, content from the Wikimedia Foundation such as Wikisource, Wikiquote, Wikivoyage, Wikibooks, and Wikiversity are also available for offline viewing in various different languages. [0] > Users first download Kiwix (or a browser extension), then download content for offline viewing with Kiwix. [1] > Our main storage backend became entirely unreachable. For the average user that meant not being able…

keep in mind the source for "they did not reach out" is a random guy on the internet, who has to find an excuse why his service was down for 3 days.

"the hoster deleted my stuff without warning" is up there with "the dog ate my homework"

Re: "Hetzner decided to cancel our account and terminate all servers"

#296

Post by ze_grump »

Suppafly wrote: post #167
diggan wrote: post #14

Most of the times you hear people complaining about Hetzner shutting down someone's servers, it's because they were hosting content going against their ToC or similar. But this seems to be about Kiwix (which in short is "offline Wikipedia" in various ways) and doesn't seem to be about questionable content in any way. Eventually I guess we'll get Hetzner's perspective on this, as they tend to start writing publicly ab…

>But reading about people having their servers deleted in the middle of the night on a Sunday (Berlin time) and all data wiped immediately, with no recurse, does sound a bit aggressive. There are several comments under this thread from people reporting essentially that happening to them.

maybe read again: the other posts mention accounts being denied before anything is created, or customers being informed up front and given lead time to move.

OP claims everything got immediately wiped without warning. That would be against Hetzner's own TOS.

OP also doesn't elaborate further, and is posting this in a position where he has to explain his own downtime of multiple days. Make your own judgmenent what is realistic here

Re: "Hetzner decided to cancel our account and terminate all servers"

#298

Post by crote »

kstrauser wrote: post #207
crote wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best part of cloud providers is that short-term VMs are relatively cheap to deploy. You don't need a full active-active failover setup, you just need to design your infrastructure in a cloud-agnostic way and test the deployment scripts a few times a year. The most expensive part is going to be maintaining an up-to-date offsite data backup. Running a few VMs for a handful of hours is basically free.

> you just need to design your infrastructure in a cloud-agnostic way But that's one helluva "just", and also means that you can't use the platform-specific features that make life easier. In practice that's probably way more expensive than spinning some testing VPSes up and down.

On the other hand, can you afford not to? Those platform-specific features might look tempting at first, but in reality you are often mostly acquiring a bunch of very expensive technical debt.

If Amazon decides to throw the banhammer your way, how long will it take you to retool your stack onto another cloud platform? Will your company survive if all your services are offline for a few weeks?

And if you grow beyond the startup size, can you afford being locked to proprietary technology? What are you going to do if Amazon decides to increase your prices by 100%? How are you supposed to negotiate when Amazon knows you are unable to switch to another cloud provider?

Re: "Hetzner decided to cancel our account and terminate all servers"

#300

Post by ze_grump »

tmikaeld wrote: post #125

Would be good to have a fall-back solution, is there something similar in dedicated server price in the EU as Hetzner? Or does no on else come close?

OVH is comparable, as is digitalocean.

OVH had a datacenter burn down a few years ago, so think about that what you will :)

Imo it makes sense to spread out, and have backups with a different provider than the one your main servers run on. They should all over S3, which is a standardized format for easy syncing of backups

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