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South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

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Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#291

Post by kube-system »

anon291 wrote: post #235
JohnFen wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has its own problem with declining freedom.

How so? That may have been true a few years ago during the COVID lockdowns, but as we've recently seen, Americans will often punish that behavior heavily at the poll booth

It wasn't even true then. The COVID lockdowns were child's play compared to the abuses of freedom in the US's past, and they're a mere suggestion compared to the lockdowns in other places around the world.

Anyone who thinks the government asking you sternly to "please stay inside" is an abuse of power must have fallen asleep in American history class. Or have never talked to their grandparents about politics in the past. There are still people alive in the US who were imprisoned due to their ethnicity.

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#292

Post by JumpCrisscross »

anon291 wrote: post #288
echoangle wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re just shifting goalposts. First it’s martial law, then it gets disproven and the response is „ok, but still bad!“. Why not make a correct claim in the first place?

Martial law is the imposition of punishments without due process. In no world can one argue that being under the equivalent of house arrest is not a punishment. To impose that punishment carte-blanche on anyone who's traveled domestically is a form of martial law.

> Martial law is the imposition of punishments without due process

No it's not.

> being under the equivalent of house arrest is not a punishment

Where were you? I was in New York City and travelled to Tennesse and California and London and Frankfurt in 2020. I went running every other day.

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#293

Post by 4bpp »

aurareturn wrote: post #67
bloomingkales wrote: post #32

Orwell being so right about governments using the constant threat of a virtual enemy has got to be one of the all time top on the money predictions ever. Up there with gravity and shit. I wish we could do something with this information, but alas, knowledge isnt power. Cersei Lannister: Power is power.

Orwell being so right about governments using the constant threat of a virtual enemy has got to be one of the all time top on the money predictions ever. Who is that virtual enemy for the US?

Russia, China, Iran or any combination of the three. Any correct response is bound to draw indignation from those who consider the enemy real rather than virtual, but this is to be expected - given that every popular story of manipulative governments (including of course 1984) is told from the perspective of a dissident, we lack the narrative framework to conceptualise what such a system looks like through the eyes of someone broadly on board with it.

The warring US tribes certainly made an effort to associate their internal enemy with these (Democrats insinuating Republican subversion by Russians, Republicans insinuating Democrat sympathies with China and Iran). Arguably, this did not really catch and the majority of people are more preoccupied with their internal outgroup, which suggests that the external-enemy strategy is currently falling flat in the US. You could make a better case for it being in place in various European countries.

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#294

Post by anon291 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #280
anon291 wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who are these people you keep referring to? Just the various takes i've read in newspapers about why people are fed up and desire change. > Martial law in America would mean suspending the Constitution. > Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; The SC has ruled that 'Congress' means the government writ large, including state governments. https://…

> various takes i've read in newspapers about why people are fed up and desire change They made less money. I'm looking forward to the next two years: I and everyone in my friend circle are going to make a lot of money. Even if we do nothing. > if you have to appeal to SCOTUS to un-suspend it, it's safe to say that it was suspended You're using a judiciary striking down an unconstitutional law as an example of martia…

So we've gone from 'no rights were suspended' to 'rights were suspended but if you successfully got them un-suspended they were never really suspended before.'.

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#295

Post by dyauspitr »

educasean wrote: post #256
nextworddev wrote: post #232

[flagged]

Please note that this is not a majority sentiment in Korea. This is a fringe conspiracy theory popular among the 4chan-like crowd in SK. Edit: It looks like the parent post was updated to remove the conspiratorial stuff. The sole fact listed is indeed true.

Him being convicted should be a verifiable fact. Why is it a conspiracy?

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#296

Post by paganel »

cuuupid wrote: post #4

Can someone ELI5 if this is a huge deal (like declaring martial law would be in the west), or if this is the equivalent of a "government shutdown" when similar budget impasses occur in the US?

There's a recent video with what look to be armed forces (weapons visible, to be more exact) entering a building which is labeled as the Parliament's building [1], so I'd call this a big thing.

[1] https://x.com/BigBreakingWire/status/1863964015376089313

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#297

Post by voxic11 »

sidewndr46 wrote: post #120
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #107

Article 77 of the Korean Constitution: "1. When it is required to cope with a military necessity or to maintain the public safety and order by mobilization of the military forces in time of war, armed conict or similar national emergency, the President may proclaim martial law as prescribed by law. 2. Martial law shall be of two types, extraordinary martial law and precautionary martial law. 3. Under extraordinary ma…

It sounds like the National Assembly just needs to meet & vote to counter this?

National Assembly has been suspended by the military so they will have trouble meeting.

> Following Yoon’s announcement, South Korea’s military proclaimed that parliament and other political gatherings that could cause “social confusion” would be suspended

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#299

Post by marcosdumay »

morkalork wrote: post #119
bluGill wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ask me in 200 years when I can look back in history and see how this turned out. It could be either, or just another case of something happening that didn't mean anything long term. Only time will tell. Of course in 200 years we will both be dead so you can't actually ask. Depending on how long you live you might be able to look back and state something conclusive. However nothing should be stated at all for 10 years…

We aren't even 100 years out from WW2 and the amount of revisionism and outright denial of events is discouraging, I'm not sure 200 years past will be any more accurate. Another commentor mentioned Orwell and I'm reminded of the brouhaha over chat-gpt refusing to say a certain person's name. How will the past be accurately represented if chatbots used by future students can be manipulated like that?

WW2 seems to be on that optimum age for peak disinformation campaign. Nobody remembers it anymore, but it is still relevant enough that people have an emotional response to it.

Re: South Korean president declares martial law, parliament votes to lift it

#300

Post by BurningFrog »

rob74 wrote: post #78
Cumpiler69 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Orwell being so right about governments using the constant threat of a virtual enemy has got to be one of the all time top on the money predictions ever. It's not a prediction when it's history. That has been going on at least as long as the Roman Empire, yet people are still surprised it's happening today. Modern regimes didn't invent these schemes, they're reusing tried and tested methods because they're known to…

Indeed - When he wrote 1984 in 1948, Orwell just took his contemporary totalitarian regimes (mostly Nazi Germany and the USSR) and extrapolated them to world scale...

Orwell learned his cynicism the hard way as a volunteer soldier in the Spanish civil war 1936-37.

He arrived as an idealistic anti fascist fighter. After experiencing Stalinism in person, he became the man we know.

https://www.realinstitutoelcano.org/en/commentaries/how-spai...

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