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Everyone is capable of, and can benefit from, mathematical thinking

quantamagazine.org

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Re: Everyone is capable of, and can benefit from, mathematical thinking

#291

Post by BigGreenJorts »

aleden wrote: post #286

In my high school we were basically only instructed to get good at applied math. Calculus. Which more often than not was simply "plugging it in". Most of that work is trivially automatible through Mathematica. When I reached a university, I took number theory and abstract algebra and it blew my mind that math was actually so beautiful in a way that defied explanation. When I took real analysis I finally saw the side…

Eh, I mean it's not on the SATs, but why isn't it? In Canada, we had a similar calculus based curriculum up to the first year of university. A little bit of linear algebra thrown into the mix. Why is that? Well you need calculus to do any form of engineering, physics, certain domains of chem/bio, stats, certain domains of economics, etc etc. Math in society is first and foremost a tool. I say this as a person who majored in Pure Math and focused on algebra and number theory. For the vast majority of students, it truly is about the practicality. Math just has the layer of abstraction that makes it hard to enjoy without deliberate framing unlike the sciences or humanities.

Re: Everyone is capable of, and can benefit from, mathematical thinking

#292

Post by samatman »

davidbessis wrote: post #270
samatman wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I see that many people are confused [...] by my take that math talent isn't primarily a matter of genes Speaking only for myself, I'm not confused at all. Rather I vigorously disagree with this statement, and think that stumping for this counterfactual premise leads to cruel behavior towards children (in particular) who plainly do not have what it takes to learn, for example and in particular, algebra. > In other w…

I think you really are confused. You are mistakenly equating "non-primarily genetic" with "easily teachable". The story is much more complex than "if it's not genetic then everybody should get it". It's quite cruel to assume that if you don't get math today you'll never get it, and there are tons of documented counter-examples of kids who didn't get it at all who end up becoming way above average. If you think that D…

[flagged]

Re: Everyone is capable of, and can benefit from, mathematical thinking

#294

Post by cutemonster »

sureglymop wrote: post #67
faangguyindia wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

"A loser in societal view"... What does that objectively mean? That only reads like you had or have a low sense of self worth. It must've been your perceived definition of what society is because how could you have come to such a conclusion? I think I'd actually subconsciously tend more to viewing someone as "a loser" if they made such a statement because it comes off as self victimization (without an apparent explan…

I think he lives in or are from India, society and family expectations are different there, not his "fault".

@faangguyindia, I hope everything will be ok one day :-) Or maybe it already is? You wrote "was".

I might be wrong but I think if you (@faangguy) manage to create a life that makes you feel happy, the women will notice that you're happy, and that goes a long way. But you'll also need to be somewhere where there are some women around? (obviously) If you're in a FAANG in SF maybe for the moment that's not so easy

Re: Everyone is capable of, and can benefit from, mathematical thinking

#296

Post by aleden »

BigGreenJorts wrote: post #291
aleden wrote: post #286

In my high school we were basically only instructed to get good at applied math. Calculus. Which more often than not was simply "plugging it in". Most of that work is trivially automatible through Mathematica. When I reached a university, I took number theory and abstract algebra and it blew my mind that math was actually so beautiful in a way that defied explanation. When I took real analysis I finally saw the side…

Eh, I mean it's not on the SATs, but why isn't it? In Canada, we had a similar calculus based curriculum up to the first year of university. A little bit of linear algebra thrown into the mix. Why is that? Well you need calculus to do any form of engineering, physics, certain domains of chem/bio, stats, certain domains of economics, etc etc. Math in society is first and foremost a tool. I say this as a person who maj…

Many people dismiss mathematics because they aren't interested in it. I definitely wasn't interested in doing dozens and dozens of error-prone problem sets that mainly boiled down to performing arithmetic. I don't need to do that.

My number theory professor was a brilliant mind, someone who had spent lots of time at the Institute for Advanced Study, and he absolutely sucked at adding/subtracting/multiplying numbers. And that was something he freely admitted. It wasn't important to his work, and it isn't important to mine.

Re: Everyone is capable of, and can benefit from, mathematical thinking

#297

Post by cutemonster »

davidbessis wrote: post #189
tgv wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not really. There's nothing inherently special about people who dedicated enough time to learn a subject. "You didn't work hard enough." People really blame you for that, not for lacking talent. > So far in human history there were less than 200 people who ran 100m in less than 10s. And many millions have tried. There may be 200 people who can run it under 10s, but there are thousands that can run it under 11s, and…

I'm the author of what you've just described as clickbait. Interestingly, the 100m metaphor is extensively discussed in my book, where I explain why it should rather lead to the exact opposite of your conclusion. The situation with math isn't that there's a bunch of people who run under 10s. It's more like the best people run in 1 nanosecond, while the majority of the population never gets to the finish line. Highly-…

> document the secret "oral tradition" of top mathematician

> A good number of Abel prize winners & Fields medallists have read my book and found it important and accurate. It's been blurbed by Steve Strogatz and Terry Tao.

Sounds like people mostly living in different bubbles? What do they know about the world?

They aren't hanging out with the kids who fail in school because maths and reading and writing is to hard, and then start selling drugs instead and get guns and start killing each other.

> [they] don't think it's because of their genes

Do you think someone would tell you, if he/she thought it was?

I mean, that can come off as arrogant? Wouldn't they rather tend to say "it was hard work, anyone can do it" and prioritize being liked by others

> Pareto-like distribution like what we see in math

Unclear to me what you have in mind. If there's a graph it'd be interesting to have a look? I wonder whats on the different axis, and how you arrived at the numbers and data points

Re: Everyone is capable of, and can benefit from, mathematical thinking

#298

Post by javier_e06 »

What is 13% of 91? I don't know. Do you? But I now 10% of 91 is 9.1 I got somewhere eh? Hey also I know that 1% of 91 is 0.91 Duh! lets triple that. 0.91 x 3 = 0.9x3 + 0.01x3 = 2.7 + 0.03 = 2.73 Now lets add 9.1.. 11.83 Weee! (Now my date is rolling her eyes and the waiter is stone faced)

Re: Everyone is capable of, and can benefit from, mathematical thinking

#299

Post by plasticeagle »

Two thoughts

1) It's tragic that being "bad at math" is often positioned as some kind of badge of honour.

2) It's definitely not the case that everyone is capable of mathematical thinking. Having spent a certain amount of time trying to teach one of my kids some semblance of mathematical thinking, I can report confidently that his ability in this area is almost non-existent. His undeniable skills lie in music and writing, but definitely not in maths.

Yes, music and maths have some things in common. But musical thinking is not mathematical thinking.

Re: Everyone is capable of, and can benefit from, mathematical thinking

#300

Post by notepad0x90 »

diffeomorphism wrote: post #242
notepad0x90 wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think UBI is feasible, it is anathema to the human condition to be content with the bare minimum. if not for our own selves, we would want the best life possible for our loved ones (present or future). my "UBI" would be a couple of million dollars. I want to learn those subjects because I enjoy learning and understanding. Life should be lived with knowledge applied through wisdom. > Could you volunteer me how…

> I don't think UBI is feasible, it is anathema to the human condition to be content with the bare minimum. Hm? That is exactly why UBI works, no? As the name indicates, the bare minimum is taken care so that you can work towards "the best life possible for our loved ones" without worrying about starving, sickness or homelessness. In contrast, if you were wrong and people would be content with the bare minimum, then…

I posted a more detailed sibling comment on this thread, but that's not why UBI works. it just shifts what the "bare minimum" is. Most Americans aren't fighting to get the best tent spot while out on the streets because they can't afford housing or begging for food on the streets. UBI isn't solving that, except as a welfare replacement for a small percentage of the population (and not a great replacement either). maybe with UBI, everyone who lives in a crappy apartment can now afford a nicer apartment, but costs for the nicer apartment would naturally go up as well. In other words, most people won't quit their jobs because of UBI, they would just temporarily afford nicer things. Those that do quit their jobs can not work and not worry about starving, but that's not a new condition. if you don't want to work in America, you won't starve. maybe housing would be a problem but the people for whom housing would be a problem if they stopped working are not typically the same people who would be content with the cheapest/worst livable condition (UBI).

In short, it is silly to expect UBI to be a means by which people would work only if they want to work, and they would pursue their passions and dreams instead. That kind of a society I think is possible, but it would also have to reach a level of wealth where money itself is not required (think star trek).

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