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Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

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Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#291

Post by throwaway2037 »

twelve40 wrote: post #269
throwaway2037 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I must disagree with your comment. Personally, I have witnessed so many people struggle for years with their weight. Being overweight and struggling to lose weight must be a 50 factor model: Multiple social, economic, and mental/physical health factors. These GLP1 drugs really are a game changer.

disagree with what? I said dieting, not cutting muscle and sticking to it long-term for most people is absurdly hard, which you seem to echo with "struggle for years"

Apologies; I misread your comment. You are right.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#292

Post by halgir »

crazygringo wrote: post #281

I'm always so baffled by warnings about losing muscle when losing weight. Of course you do! If your body is tens of pounds lighter, then you don't need the extra muscle to lug it around. This paper is about reduction in heart muscle, and of course your heart doesn't need to be as strong because there's less blood to pump and less tissue to fuel. When you gain weight, you also increase the muscles needed to carry that…

I'm not qualified to interpret results, but this paragraph stuck out to me:

> Using mice for the study, the researchers found that heart muscle also decreased in both obese and lean mice. The systemic effect observed in mice was then confirmed in cultured human heart cells.

So it also happened for already lean mice (though no mention of whether they still lost fat), and for cultured human heart cells (so not a by-product of needing less muscle to pump blood through a shrunken body).

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#293

Post by FollowingTheDao »

kbos87 wrote: post #137

There are a lot of people here citing loss of muscle mass as a side effect of GLP-1s, when the reality is that weight loss almost always comes with muscle loss. For me, that hasn't even been the case. I'm down 40lbs on a relatively low dose of Semaglutide and my muscle mass has moderately increased over the last 6 months. The hysteria over this is totally unfounded.

I would be more concerned about the thyroid cancer when taking these drugs...

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?as_ylo=2024&q=glp+1+thyro...

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#294

Post by ThinkBeat »

crazygringo wrote: post #281

I'm always so baffled by warnings about losing muscle when losing weight. Of course you do! If your body is tens of pounds lighter, then you don't need the extra muscle to lug it around. This paper is about reduction in heart muscle, and of course your heart doesn't need to be as strong because there's less blood to pump and less tissue to fuel. When you gain weight, you also increase the muscles needed to carry that…

Then a study concentrates no comparing muscle weight loss by traditional dieting, that is a change in what someone eats, to weight loss via drugs.

It is not immediately clear if the muscle loss happens faster (probably) what the immediate impact of that is, and whether or not you lose more muscle mass on one or the other.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#295

Post by NovemberWhiskey »

metafunctor wrote: post #273
cyberax wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For the people who lift weights while on this/these drugs, how much lean muscle do they lose? I was 92kg when I started on liraglutide (I was doing GLP-1 agonists before it was cool!) and 67% of muscle mass (61kg). I'm now at 69kg and 82% of muscle mass (56kg). I'm doing weight and resistance training twice a week, in addition to aerobic training. One nice thing, while muscles don't become more massive, they for su…

Those muscle mass percentages cannot be right. How were they measured?

I’m assuming that’s lean mass (100% - fat %) rather than muscle mass. Unless that person doesn’t have a skeleton.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#296

Post by codingdave »

crazygringo wrote: post #281

I'm always so baffled by warnings about losing muscle when losing weight. Of course you do! If your body is tens of pounds lighter, then you don't need the extra muscle to lug it around. This paper is about reduction in heart muscle, and of course your heart doesn't need to be as strong because there's less blood to pump and less tissue to fuel. When you gain weight, you also increase the muscles needed to carry that…

> Our bodies are really good at providing exactly the amount of muscle we need for our daily activities

That is exactly the risk. Our bodies are really good at it. But we are taking drugs that may change what our bodies do. Even a small bit of extra heart muscle loss may push as below where our bodies would have left us naturally. Is that dangerous? Are there people who need to worry about it? How do we know whether or not that should be a concern? It raises questions, and is worthy of discussion, even if we do land at answers that say it is an acceptable level of risk.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#297

Post by NovemberWhiskey »

0xEF wrote: post #263
tomhoward wrote: post #181

I'm not commenting specifically on the heart-muscle aspect of the study, but it shouldn't be a surprise that the weight loss from this drug is significantly attributable to muscle loss; it almost always is when dieting. It's the same with keto/low-carb or any other kind of caloric-restrictive dieting (which Ozempic facilitates). The modern weight-loss programs I'm seeing now (at least those aimed mostly at middle-age…

Diet and exercise. It always comes back to that, yet people avoid it like the plague. The modern weight loss program you described is pushed because that's what people want; an extremely low-effort methodology that yields extremely high results. The idea that their is some silver bullet to weight loss has dominated the US health market for ages now because selling someone a pill that they don't have to do anything bu…

I don’t think anyone is disputing that changes to diet and exercise are required.

Based on people who I know have been taking these drugs, they make it much easier to reduce calorie intake by promoting satiety. That’s the benefit.

Doing the rest of your life while you feel hungry is not fun, and willpower is not infinite.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#298

Post by FollowingTheDao »

DidYaWipe wrote: post #40

So... could this be a treatment for enlarged hearts?

Interesting!

People do no realize how wide spread the GLP1 receptors are in the human body. GLPL1R is expressed on all muscles so heart muscle will be effected:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5939638/

https://www.proteinatlas.org/ENSG00000112164-GLP1R/tissue

The way these drugs help loose weight is by increasing cellular activity by stimulating adenylyl cyclase and increased intracellular cAMP levels. It is not that hard and not a msytery to anyone who can think straight about human metabolism.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#299

Post by greentxt »

5636553454654 wrote: post #276
Sheeny96 wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whilst it is 95% calories in calories out, keto (not low carb, as low carb doesn't include high fat) can be good for muscle retention whilst in a defecit - as more foods that you consume naturally have higher protein (I utilise keto when looking to drop body fat, consuming a lot of slightly higher fat cuts of meat as a replacement for the carb calories, so chicken thighs instead of breast, 10% ground beef,etc). The h…

[dead]

Carbs are harder to control for many people, and less forgiving. A side effect of keto is decreased appetite. A side effect of carbs is overeating.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#300

Post by lee »

crazygringo wrote: post #281

I'm always so baffled by warnings about losing muscle when losing weight. Of course you do! If your body is tens of pounds lighter, then you don't need the extra muscle to lug it around. This paper is about reduction in heart muscle, and of course your heart doesn't need to be as strong because there's less blood to pump and less tissue to fuel. When you gain weight, you also increase the muscles needed to carry that…

From the article: "...explains this rate of muscle decline is significantly higher than what is typically observed with calorie-reduced diets or normal aging and could lead to a host of long-term health issues..."

The warning isn't that you're losing muscle during weight-loss with these drugs. It's that the ratio of muscle vs fat loss is much greater with the drugs compared to traditional weight loss methods.

It's been well studied that if you exercise and eat enough protein while losing weight, you can retain more muscle.

Losing a lot of lean mass is incredibly detrimental to your longevity and quality of life.

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