A Dust Over India • Hacker News Board

Re: A Dust Over India

#291

Post by JabavuAdams » Mon, Jul 09, 2012, 12:52 PM UTC

jessedhillon wrote: post #271

Why is this being upvoted and still on the front page? In addition to being totally irrelevant to the site guidelines: the guy goes to India, visits all the tourist hotspots, and eats at Pizza Hut. While traveling. In India. Without accepting or denying any of the observations he makes, and at the risk of sounding like I "lack perspective," I humbly offer that if you travel halfway around the world and still eat at a…

> I humbly offer that if you travel halfway around the world and still eat at an American chain restaurant, your judgment of foreign culture is irrelevant.

Nonsense. For all we know, he ate there once. Homesickness is a common experience for travellers in a very different culture.

Re: A Dust Over India

#292

Post by jtheory » Mon, Jul 09, 2012, 1:35 PM UTC

vixen99 wrote: post #289

raita wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eeeh, quote: "In a word, the place is disgusting. All of it. The entire country." This is the most narrow minded I've read in a long time - and only shows not all people are ready to meet "foreign" cultures.

Does he actually have to spell out for you that he is one person who screams the blindingly obvious that he can only generalize on the basis of his experience? So when he says 'All of it. The entire country' that is an expression of his impression - the 'all' he saw. If you can't get that maybe you should leave off reading accounts where meticulous ( and unnecessary fo most of us ) qualification is absent.

All he has to do is give a rough impression of his sample (so we can guess how representative his impression is of the whole!), and say that every part of India he saw was overflowing with trash, or whatever.

Instead he went out of his way to emphasize that he was speaking about the entire country. All of it.

I'm not Indian, and I still found it offensive enough that I didn't even get through the entire article. I got the impression straight off that he simply went to Agra -- Agra of all places! One of the top tourist destinations in the world, and of course thus one of the top spots for people who feed on tourists -- and his travel on the route to Agra plus time in a hostel in New Delhi was the bulk of his experience.

Blargh. I've spent all of a few months total of my life traveling in India at different times, including Agra, and though I'd never want to return to Agra in particular, already my overall impression didn't match up well with his.

I'll leave people with more experience to battle over the details, but this was more than just someone omitting "I think" in front of everything they write.

Edit: the other dead giveaway that he didn't get around much is that he talked about "the Indian culture", and Indian people, as if India were small and homogenous enough that you could make useful summaries about the single Indian culture. Again, there are lots of people here who can address this better than I, but the traits he talks about vary greatly and noticeably by general region.

Re: A Dust Over India

#293

Post by lalitm » Mon, Jul 09, 2012, 1:37 PM UTC

Looks like a lots of people from West (US and Europe) and many Indian's who were once in West have lots of Issues with India, primarily because of Out-Sourcing. Westerners, because they are loosing a lot of jobs to the ones in India, plus the "dusty" economy of West! Indians, because they were forced out of their beloved Work-Land, i.e the West, to move back to India. Grow-up hackers...

Re: A Dust Over India

#294

Post by grandalf » Mon, Jul 09, 2012, 3:12 PM UTC

evan_ wrote: post #250

grandalf wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What percent of your lifetime income / net worth would you give up to avoid a 6 month term in a maximum security penitentiary?

A smaller percent than if it were the actual Gulag?

Ok fair enough, but considering that gulags are known to us via old propaganda stories and prisons are part of the modern human rights (intellectual) blind spot that most affluent western people suffer from, it's not surprising that you consider them drastically different.

In my opinion, the notion of almost certain rape and being locked into a cell with a violent individual in a system where violence is tolerated is about as cruel a punishment as one could possibly inflict. The worst psychological torture combined with brutal physical subjugation.

Re: A Dust Over India

#295

Post by grandalf » Mon, Jul 09, 2012, 3:25 PM UTC

turar wrote: post #249

CamperBob2 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I don't think it's as simple as that. My take on it: in the US, the climate makes it possible to rise far above the subsistence level, but only with some effort and/or ingenuity. Motivated people have historically been rewarded with better lives, and that truth has influenced our entire culture. In equatorial island countries, it's too easy. What, you think you can spend your whole life relaxing on the beach sippi…

I think climate may play some role, but it's nowhere near as important as the OP stated. You've got Canada vs Russia, Singapore vs Madagascar, South Korea vs North Korea, Australia vs Papua New Guinea, etc. Basically, there are lots of other factors.

Of course there are other factors involved as well. Even with an ideal environment there is still a lot that can go wrong.

Re: A Dust Over India

#296

Post by crag » Mon, Jul 09, 2012, 3:27 PM UTC

jagira wrote: post #215

crag wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Also, just to point out, don't base your comparisons on a blog post." As opposed to what you are basing you opinions on; "My sister lives in Troy. When she was new to Detroit, she choose a wrong route while driving to downtown Detroit. While passing through a certain area (don't remember the name, will call her and ask) some gangsters tried to stop her car and rob her. Luckily she escaped." Down vote me all you've w…

a) You still don't get it. I am not trying to pick any place. Maybe Detroit has improved. Good for you, my sister, the USA and this world. But you may still warn your tourist friend of certain places in other American cities , right? An uninformed tourist will be shocked if he/she visit such places just like India. b) I didn't down vote any of your post. Hence, these replies.

No, YOU don't get it. Maybe you should not reference places you've never been too in your posts.

Re: A Dust Over India

#297

Post by delackner » Mon, Jul 09, 2012, 3:28 PM UTC

grandalf wrote: post #142

carbocation wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the more useful distinction between your positions is one of moral relativism vs moral absolutism, rather than neoconservatism vs (any other -ism).

Well it depends on what you focus on. Yes the differences between the two countries are relative. But they are obviously different and so it's not a stretch to realize that. The noteworthy aspect, in my opinion, is the strong indignation felt by the author which is amplified in its absurdity by the existence of many of the very same problems in the US.

When a person has seen only a single sociopolitical system, it is easy to just shrug and say "it just is this way.". It is often only after seeing the totally different systems active in other societies first-hand that it becomes brilliantly clear that not only are the wrongs back home unacceptable, but that the other society you have found also possesses its own share of injustices that the locals are indifferent to. It is not wrong to be enraged at the suffering and petty evil everywhere. It is simply uncommon and stressful to try to do something since a single individual's effort may seem like that of an ant.

Re: A Dust Over India

#298

Post by aangjie » Mon, Jul 09, 2012, 3:40 PM UTC

_debug_ wrote: post #218

As an Indian, I'd like to put in a word about spirituality and "seeking" : getting trapped by the spiritual tourism hawkers is the worst way to go about it. Please do not just land up and ask, "So where is the latest and greatest ashram?". You'll probably get scammed, or worse, physically or mentally abused. Do not underestimate the charisma and level of brainwashing techniques that fake gurus are capable of. Even le…

I would also recommend a quick read of http://www.amazon.com/Karma-Cola-Marketing-Mystic-East/dp/06.... It'll give you a perhaps old, but still relevant list of signs to watch out for.

Re: A Dust Over India

#299

Post by dredmorbius » Mon, Jul 09, 2012, 3:43 PM UTC

aggronn wrote: post #247

dredmorbius wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's accurate. What part of "when a state regulatory agency, created to act in the public interest, instead advances the commercial or special interests that dominate the industry or sector it is charged with regulating" don't you understand? That is the definition of "regulatory capture". Note that regulatory capture is not "balancing the public interest with commercial realities" or similar such wording. If you…

It might suffice to say that 'regulatory capture' is used more broadly in economic literature than what the wikipedia article you're referencing leads on. Maybe not. We disagree fundamentally on the 'appearance of impropriety' comment here. I don't consider the reason for changing jobs to be so cut and dry. I don't see this moving onto a productive discussion.

If you're finding an alternate definition, cite your reference.

Re: A Dust Over India

#300

Post by delackner » Mon, Jul 09, 2012, 3:56 PM UTC

spitx wrote: post #138

irahul wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Come on, that picture is more exception than the norm. The norm isn't too far from the exception. I spent 4 years in Chennai, and this was a common sight. http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_-4o_J8R8OVg/TIy3nfGUzdI/AAAAAAAAAo... Though I have never seen the bent buses in Bangalore yet in the 5 years I have been here. That is not to say public buses are pleasant here - you still deal with being densely packed with other commu…

You guys should come by the Mission district or China Town or Lower Haight ( here in San Francisco ) or take public transit (any of the BART stations - 16th, 24th, Civic Center or Glen Park). The foulest stench of excrement anywhere. Some blame the Hispanic population and some blame the Hmong and others blame the street urchins. But I never expected to smell anything so odious in a major metropolis in the U.S.

I always just blamed the systemic paralysis of sf bay government caused by poor design of the intersection between public power and private power over the commons.