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A new dental scam is to pull healthy teeth to sell you expensive fake ones

arstechnica.com

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Re: A new dental scam is to pull healthy teeth to sell you expensive fake ones

#291

Post by bsder »

mmooss wrote: post #271
nosianu wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That reminds me of this 2020 study of dentists in Switzerland, previously discussed on HN in January 2023: HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34322194 Study: "Health Services as Credence Goods: a Field Experiment" -- https://academic.oup.com/ej/article-abstract/130/629/1346/57... (full study available on SciHub) [Note: Credence goods are goods whose qualities cannot be ascertained by consumers even after purcha…

> we find significantly fewer overtreatment recommendations for patients with higher socio-economic status compared with lower socio-economic status for standard visits Very interesting: You'd think they'd go for the deeper pockets, but something overrides that.

A lot of it is an assumption that patient at some point won't follow up for some reason (generally money).

So, the dentist is more likely to prioritize completeable treatment over wait and see.

Due to my mouth and jaw shape, I put a lot of pressure on two of my lower teeth. They have abfractions and they are going to crack at some point. Being north of middle aged, none of my options to change things are great (normally you'd crack the jaw and move the teeth around--kinda not great at my age).

However, I show up regularly for cleaning so she is willing to observe and monitor. I suspect that if I weren't a reliable, recurring patient, she'd probably press me to do something about them.

Re: A new dental scam is to pull healthy teeth to sell you expensive fake ones

#292

Post by johnnyanmac »

bityard wrote: post #259
lolinder wrote: post #78

Dentists function similarly to mechanics for most people: they're the expert who knows everything and you know basically nothing. They tell you something is wrong and they need to do a $X00 procedure to fix it, but you have no way to validate in the moment that this is true. The funny thing is that with mechanics I think this has long been widely understood. People realize how important it is to find a trustworthy me…

Yes. In the US we seem to be trained that every medical professional is 100% truthful and knowledgeable. That is just simply NOT the case. Without going into the details, I had a fully-trained dermatologist with a PHD diagnose a sudden and severe skin condition. It turns out they got it so wrong it was hilarious. With no actual evidence or lab tests, he diagnosed it as something that was both very unlikely (borderlin…

> hemmed and hawed for several weeks over whether to email a reprimand to that Doctor's manager, but ultimately decided it wouldn't do any good.

Why? I feel I'd at least want that on the record even if the manager chooses to do nothing. Given what you're saying sounds so blantalty off course and not just some honest mistake.

Re: A new dental scam is to pull healthy teeth to sell you expensive fake ones

#293

Post by loocsinus »

owenversteeg wrote: post #250
loocsinus wrote: post #97

I am a dentist. The article and some of the comments here make me sad. sorry for the bad apples in my profession. I am sure most of the dentists are honest. If you have questions about procedures you don't understand, you can ask me.

I hate to say it, but I do not believe that most dentists are honest. Have you heard of the Readers Digest dentist investigation? In any other field it would have been a come-to-Jesus moment, prompting total reform, but the industry escaped with a mountain of PR and no change. That was nearly thirty years ago. Since then, median gross dentists' billings have increased significantly. Support for evidence-based, low-in…

my dental school is pretty big on evident based dentistry. Many dentists I works with often refer to researches and guidelines. Even dentists arguing with each other on the internet quote researches. So I think it is getting better.

Re: A new dental scam is to pull healthy teeth to sell you expensive fake ones

#294

Post by dennis_jeeves2 »

loocsinus wrote: post #284
dennis_jeeves2 wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am sure most of the dentists are honest. Honest but incompetent. For example most wisdom tooth removals are not necessary, but because (I think) it was taught at dental school most would recommend it. To be fair this is not a dentists' only problem, it's true for every profession.

they didn't teach us to remove every wisdom teeth in dental school. also your assertion that "most wisdom teeth removal are not necessary" does not fit my observations.

> every wisdom teeth

Did I use the word 'every'?

>most wisdom teeth removal are not necessary" does not fit my observations.

This does not fit in with the anecdotes I have and personal experiences.

Also 2 people user here has commented on wisdom tooth removals :

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42019210 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42017899

So where do you think is the discrepancy in what you have observed and what 3 users on this forum have commented on?

Re: A new dental scam is to pull healthy teeth to sell you expensive fake ones

#295

Post by dennis_jeeves2 »

aanet wrote: post #286
dennis_jeeves2 wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does an oath matter, really? Any oath is a sham show of allegiance/sincerity to some cause.

It doesn't, really, tbh... One just feels that Doctors would offer the care that starts with "do no harm". And I say this as the child of two Doctors from developing countries who spent their ~50 year working lives serving under-served communities, with little to no material benefit to themselves. IMHO the whole medical + healthcare industry in the US is so incredibly complex with so many misaligned incentives -- mos…

>One just feels that Doctors would offer the care that starts with "do no harm".

Well there is more to it that meets the eye. A medical student I hear has half a million in student debt when he/she starts working. So even the simple "do no harm" philosophy is thrown out of the window. All in all (like you pointed out) It's a complete mess. There are ways to fix the issue but it is counter-intutive to most people.

Re: A new dental scam is to pull healthy teeth to sell you expensive fake ones

#296

Post by [deleted] »

grogenaut wrote: post #221
ilc wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Odd, my dentist's hygenist complains that people who have their wisdom teeth suck at taking care of them in general. Mine got pulled for good reason. They were severely impacted, and pushing other teeth out of alignment. (I can still feel that I have out of alignment teeth in the far back of my mouth.) Not everyone should "keep their wisdom teeth." Sometimes... they gotta go.

I got them out because I'd randomly get a dorrito or something stuck right inside the gum causing them to bleed and be messed up for a week, about 4 times a year.

[deleted]

Re: A new dental scam is to pull healthy teeth to sell you expensive fake ones

#297

Post by thrower112 »

hansonkd wrote: post #31

This might sound stupid but I refuse to go to dentists that have "too nice" of an office. Over the years I have lived in several places and had a variety of dentists and one common theme that sticks with me, the nicer and higher tech the office is, the more procedures they are going to recommend you. They need to pay for the equipment and office somehow. I've had one dentist say I need 3 cavities filled. That I neede…

[dead]

Re: A new dental scam is to pull healthy teeth to sell you expensive fake ones

#298

Post by anonu »

delecti wrote: post #40
anonu wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am pretty sure Ive had cavities taken care of that were not cavities. Ultimately its a small procedure and nets the dentist a few $100 bucks - and the patient can't be bothered to get a 2nd opinion. Maybe this is where AI helps with analysis of x-rays. Is there really an urgent issue? Or can it wait?

I'm unclear on who is using AI in this scenario. Are you going to use your own AI on your X-rays, or expect that the dentist will use a new tool to tell them to not do the procedure to get them more money?

Probably the latter scenario. Its a hypothetical - but it could happen if health records move increasingly online and if enough patients demand that level of control.

Re: A new dental scam is to pull healthy teeth to sell you expensive fake ones

#299

Post by loocsinus »

dennis_jeeves2 wrote: post #294
loocsinus wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they didn't teach us to remove every wisdom teeth in dental school. also your assertion that "most wisdom teeth removal are not necessary" does not fit my observations.

> every wisdom teeth Did I use the word 'every'? >most wisdom teeth removal are not necessary" does not fit my observations. This does not fit in with the anecdotes I have and personal experiences. Also 2 people user here has commented on wisdom tooth removals : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42019210 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42017899 So where do you think is the discrepancy in what you have observe…

I respect your opinion. The fact that I have extracted (and not extracted) more wisdom teeth than 3 of you means nothing to this argument is what worries me the most: Dentists have lost patients trust. I am no longer a trustworthy expert. So sad.

Re: A new dental scam is to pull healthy teeth to sell you expensive fake ones

#300

Post by thfuran »

delecti wrote: post #40
anonu wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am pretty sure Ive had cavities taken care of that were not cavities. Ultimately its a small procedure and nets the dentist a few $100 bucks - and the patient can't be bothered to get a 2nd opinion. Maybe this is where AI helps with analysis of x-rays. Is there really an urgent issue? Or can it wait?

I'm unclear on who is using AI in this scenario. Are you going to use your own AI on your X-rays, or expect that the dentist will use a new tool to tell them to not do the procedure to get them more money?

Insurers could potentially require specific tools be used to cover a procedure.
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