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Jaywalking legalized in New York City

theguardian.com

291–300 of 370 posts

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#291
post #282

The dichotomy is pretty interesting to me, given that most major cities in the country have been running high-publicity programs for the last decade to do everything possible to reduce car-related deaths, especially protecting pedestrians and bicyclists. (Cities like NYC and Seattle call it "vision zero", a vision of zero serious traffic injuries/deaths). They work to separate pedestrians and bicyclists from traffic,…

Maybe there's some negative American exceptionalism here (the idea that what works in other countries can't work in the US because reasons) but many other countries have no jaywalking laws or much more lax versions (e.g. only applies to motorways) and have much lower pedestrian deaths than the US. Road safety is a cultural thing and relates to how unequal a person's rights are based on their mode of transport. Growin…

Agreed, growing up in Portugal, I had no idea about the concept. Cars even stop for you here outside of crosswalks. When I moved to London UK, I was surprised how wild things were there. Jaywalking is just part of the city.

But I love that way. I think the alternative is just fascism. The idea that pedestrians are illegal if they don’t use a crosswalk seems insane to me.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>New Yorkers don't have a concept of "jaywalking"; it's just "walking." It's also not a word in the German language at all, it's just "crossing the road". If you do it safely grate, if you don't not grate and if there are children nearby unsafe road crossing is really something you shouldn't do, especially it it's just because you are to lazy to walk a small bit more (I think crossing a road close by a pedestrian cro…

At the same time, a great deal of pedestrian crossings is not marked for cars at all, and only at most hinted towards for pedestrians. Sometimes there is a small pedestrian crossing sign painted on the road facing the sidewalk, sometimes there's just a slight decline in the curbside on both sides. I guess that this is some legal loophole to give cars priority, since legally they have to stop if someone wants to cross…

It's mainly that way because due to crossing at most places being legal you don't need specially marked crossing and special marked crossings are mostly reserved for special situations.

Like legally speaking there is no direct rule weather a car has to slow down or stop when someone is crossing the road. But if not doing so would endanger anyone the car has to do it anyway. And not doing so means you are pretty much fully liable for any damages this causes (assuming they had time to react etc.). Similar going on a street in a way which forces a car to strongly break isn't legal, as abrupt breaking comes with all kinds of dangers. For many situations especially small streets, low to mid traffic situations or situations with such high traffic that they jam this works perfectly fine without needing any "official" pedestrian crossings anywhere.

There still can be "unofficial" crossing, but they mainly exist to make space at the side of the street i.e. prevent parking cars blocking pedestrians from crossing. This matters especially for people with buggies, baggage or e.g. walkers. It also helps with visibility as small people like children are easy to overlook between parking cars. But they have no special legal handling and aren't loop holes or anything either. Just the normal way pedestrian crossing had been handled in most places before care traffic became big.

Through because "people aren't always careful", "crossing streets with multiple lanes is always a bit scary" and "sometimes traffic is just too high" and similar we have pedestrian crossings with traffic lights on nearly all road crossings involving multi lane streets or streets with 50km/h speed limit. Sometimes there are also traffic lights for things which are only pedestrian crossings, normally with a button you have to press for them to signal cars to stop.

Lastly there are properly marked pedestrian crossings (zebra strips, with appropriate sign) which are special in that cars have to stop if it looks like a pedestrian _maybe_ wants to cross the street. Not just if it would be dangerous to not do so. They are basically a cheaper version of a on demand traffic lights in situations where crossing the street without one can be hard to do safely while there is very little pedestrian traffic at the same time (e.g. on a street where for a long strap is no crossing with traffic lights but sometimes people have to cross in the middle but only a few times a day). Sometimes also used in situations where theoretically not specially handling is needed but due to idk. there being a primary school nearby it's done to add a bit of additional safety.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#293

Let's not forget that jaywalking was essentially created by the automotive industry and its lobbyists, to make life more convenient for drivers. It started in car-heavy places like California, and eventually became a law virtually everywhere in the US, but was never really enforced in New York City, where most people walk or take public transit, rather than drive. If, like most New Yorkers, you walk several kilometer…

In Vienna, which has very good public transport and a large walking population, there is a strong culture against jaywalking. Locals will wait at the crosswalk sign even on minor roads with no traffic. Having lived in New York, London, and other places, I've never seen anything like it.

[flagged]

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#294

Let's not forget that jaywalking was essentially created by the automotive industry and its lobbyists, to make life more convenient for drivers. It started in car-heavy places like California, and eventually became a law virtually everywhere in the US, but was never really enforced in New York City, where most people walk or take public transit, rather than drive. If, like most New Yorkers, you walk several kilometer…

>New Yorkers don't have a concept of "jaywalking"; it's just "walking." It's also not a word in the German language at all, it's just "crossing the road". If you do it safely grate, if you don't not grate and if there are children nearby unsafe road crossing is really something you shouldn't do, especially it it's just because you are to lazy to walk a small bit more (I think crossing a road close by a pedestrian cro…

It's cultural, being a foreigner in Germany, you always get told to comply to rules. I couldn't care less about it and just shrug it off. Honestly, some cities are really hostile to pedestrians with barely any crossings. I don't care if there are children around.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we're talking about writing laws here. For example: >with only minimal requirements made of the driver. could easily be changed by changing the requirements.

No law is going to physically protect you from a 2 ton hunk of steel.

Not so sure about that one.

Commercial drivers are involved in collisions less frequently, and the more stringent licensing requirements (i.e. a law) are probably helping with that.

Drivers knowing that they will get away with mowing down a pedestrian so long as they say they didn't see them is also going to encourage dangerous driving.

Most importantly, laws that promote safer street designs make a massive difference in pedestrian fatalities.

All this to say that: laws do protect people from 2ton hunks of steel.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#296

Let's not forget that jaywalking was essentially created by the automotive industry and its lobbyists, to make life more convenient for drivers. It started in car-heavy places like California, and eventually became a law virtually everywhere in the US, but was never really enforced in New York City, where most people walk or take public transit, rather than drive. If, like most New Yorkers, you walk several kilometer…

>New Yorkers don't have a concept of "jaywalking"; it's just "walking." It's also not a word in the German language at all, it's just "crossing the road". If you do it safely grate, if you don't not grate and if there are children nearby unsafe road crossing is really something you shouldn't do, especially it it's just because you are to lazy to walk a small bit more (I think crossing a road close by a pedestrian cro…

We know the meaning of the American word in Britain, but it's also not a concept here.

Germany seems very strict compared to the UK. You can be fined €10 in Germany for crossing when the red man is lit!

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the same time, a great deal of pedestrian crossings is not marked for cars at all, and only at most hinted towards for pedestrians. Sometimes there is a small pedestrian crossing sign painted on the road facing the sidewalk, sometimes there's just a slight decline in the curbside on both sides. I guess that this is some legal loophole to give cars priority, since legally they have to stop if someone wants to cross…

Laws vary. In Washington every street corner is an unmarked crosswalk, where pedestrians have priority. Many drivers don’t know this, of course.

I think given that the upper comment speaks about Germany not having a word for it I would guess the comment is about Germany. Where laws are the same for traffic across all of it (ignoring administrative differences).

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#298
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your trying to imply something, but I cannot tell what. Could you possibly make it explicit?

If you allow pedestrians to cross anywhere at any time with right of way, that can work to a certain density. On the other end of the scale, traffic will be at a standstill due to a constant stream of pedestrians. I don't know exactly where on that scale either of those cities is, but the argument that it works in the UK where the density is 5x less seems flawed.

In practice nobody steps out in front of a moving vehicle (for obvious reasons) and most people cross at the crossings most of the time because that makes sense.

In situations where there are a lot of people at the same time, like say a music festival or a sports game finishing, the police tend to manage the flow of people.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>New Yorkers don't have a concept of "jaywalking"; it's just "walking." It's also not a word in the German language at all, it's just "crossing the road". If you do it safely grate, if you don't not grate and if there are children nearby unsafe road crossing is really something you shouldn't do, especially it it's just because you are to lazy to walk a small bit more (I think crossing a road close by a pedestrian cro…

Rotgänger Totgänger!

it's a ad-hoc compound word not a official German word (not in Duden)

it pretty much appears only in the given phrase and hardly anyone uses it

but most importantly is that this phrase is about crossing the street on pedestrian crossing with traffic lights while they signal that you should wait a moment

which indeed is frowned on in Germany, depending on region quite a lot

but jaywalking also refers to you "just crossing the street" at a place where there is no pedestrian crossing. Which outside of Highways, limited-access roads and similar is quite normal.

and sure if there is a pedestrian crossing just a few meter down the road it is frowned on if you don't use it

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>New Yorkers don't have a concept of "jaywalking"; it's just "walking." As a general rule, I watch the cars and not the traffic lights. Mostly because many motorists (and NYC buses are the worst!) often don't pay attention to pedestrians, intersections or traffic lights. In fact, I'm more careful when walking through an intersection than in the middle of the street.

New York is probably the only place in the US where most of the drivers did not learn to drive here. It's the most international city in the US, and a disproportionate number of people who use the roads (taxis, delivery drivers, etc) grew up in places that have a traffic system very different that the US's. People in New York routinely run red lights, roll through crosswalks, ride in the shoulder - things that you mi…

It's up to the USA (or New York state) to recognize (or not) foreign licences, and to decide how easy (fill in a form) or difficult (take a driving test) it is to swap a foreign licence for a local one.

https://dmv.ny.gov/driver-license/resources-for-non-us-citiz...

For example, an American driving licence can be exchanged for a Danish one if an American moves to Denmark, but a Mexican one cannot — they must take the full driving test.

https://international.kk.dk/live/transport-and-parking/drivi...

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