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HTML Form Validation is underused

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Re: HTML Form Validation is underused

#291

Post by francislavoie »

hluska wrote: post #281
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone who disagrees with you is lying. Accusing people is a bad look here on HN. "Assume good faith" is the standard. You can say "You're wrong". "You're lying", though, is almost never appropriate, and is, in itself, quite hostile.

Again “users are too stupid”. That’s remarkably hostile to users and doesn’t belong.

Please read my other comments. I'm not using "stupid" in the derogatory sense. I'm using it as a recognition of the skill/knowledge gap between technical and non-technical users.

Re: HTML Form Validation is underused

#292

Post by BrandonMarc »

askew wrote: post #274
micromacrofoot wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this seems like a very mean spirited take on accessibility?

I took from it that [the designers] are all mouth and no trousers – which is fairly common. But "the poor disabled people" seems patronising.

I believe that was the commenter's point - that the designers described patronizingly virtue signal about their accessibility priorities, while their other decisions are troublesome.

Re: HTML Form Validation is underused

#293

Post by mrguyorama »

guappa wrote: post #202
ximm wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never really understood why people want to style stuff like this. I like how you can express yourself by using colors and layout and stuff like that. But at some point usability is more important than branding.

> usability is more important than branding. Said no designer ever. At work our design team came up with buttons that are 10x10 pixels on my screen. They are used to change pages (like on mobile, but this is a desktop program), the scroll events are ignored by design, so you either click the tiny buttons (which are slightly darker gray than the dark background) or you simulate a finger swipe via drag and drop with th…

>usability is more important than branding.

Any designer unwilling to say this, especially in the context of accessibility, should be outright fired. They are bad at their job.

Accessibility is a legally mandated requirement, not an afterthought

Re: HTML Form Validation is underused

#294

Post by kaoD »

everdimension wrote: post #286
kaoD wrote: post #244

My product just failed an accessibility audit because we are using native HTML form validation and the official recommendation was to implement our own validation layer. EDIT: which I agree with. Native HTML validation has many flaws and visual customization is not my biggest concern to be honest (but it's the nail in the coffin). E.g.: - It's impossible to show multiple errors at once per field unless you concat str…

Thanks, that's quite interesting and insightful! Thank you for sharing The fact that something provided by the browser can fail accessibility requirements is definitely ironic. We're always taught that the motivation to "use the platform" and "follow semantics and semantic elements" is partly to satisfy the accessibility concerns. I still think it's worth to leverage the native validation mechanisms. * You don't have…

> You can read directly from the input's ValidityState (input.validity)

Feels like I don't gain much from that. Native validation is very limited and the few cases that it covers are super simple to implement already. Am I missing something?

I'd rather have a `validateSomething` which returns a discriminated union of error causes than using `pattern` and just getting a boolean.

> In my project I have a "HiddenValidationInput" component

Yeah, that's an accessibility issue (and the UX for the common user is terrible too for multiple reasons).

Re: HTML Form Validation is underused

#295

Post by potato3732842 »

micromacrofoot wrote: post #212
guappa wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> usability is more important than branding. Said no designer ever. At work our design team came up with buttons that are 10x10 pixels on my screen. They are used to change pages (like on mobile, but this is a desktop program), the scroll events are ignored by design, so you either click the tiny buttons (which are slightly darker gray than the dark background) or you simulate a finger swipe via drag and drop with th…

plenty of designers say this, often company leadership is the one pushing them to style everything because everyone else does

>because everyone else does

Which everyone is only doing because it's an industry fad likely stemming from copycatting one or two instances where it was done for legitimate reasons.

Re: HTML Form Validation is underused

#296

Post by fhdsgbbcaA »

DeathArrow wrote: post #132

>Imagine a username input that should be valid only if the username is not taken Maybe that is user friendly but for sure I don't like to see the backend bombarded with API calls each time an user types a letter.

It’s a major security/privacy issue, you don’t want to tell world+dog all registered users, especially since that’s typically an email address.

Huge, huge, massive “no no”.

Likewise you still have to do sever side validation as any client side code can be modified, or you can just send payloads directly to the server. IMHO client side form validation is dangerous as it gives a false sense of security.

Re: HTML Form Validation is underused

#297

Post by xnx »

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #221
pbreit wrote: post #11

The biggest, easiest to implement underutilization is: "Using specific type attribute values, such as "email", "number", or "url"" These can significantly improve user experience on mobile by triggering the optimal keyboard.

They could improve user experience everywhere if browser vendors wanted. E.g. why doesn't my (desktop) browser auto-complete recently-visited / bookmarked URLs when it sees type=url?

Privacy?

Re: HTML Form Validation is underused

#299

Post by szundi »

potato3732842 wrote: post #295
micromacrofoot wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

plenty of designers say this, often company leadership is the one pushing them to style everything because everyone else does

>because everyone else does Which everyone is only doing because it's an industry fad likely stemming from copycatting one or two instances where it was done for legitimate reasons.

And now we have llms who do the same as well

Re: HTML Form Validation is underused

#300

Post by inopinatus »

askew wrote: post #274
micromacrofoot wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this seems like a very mean spirited take on accessibility?

I took from it that [the designers] are all mouth and no trousers – which is fairly common. But "the poor disabled people" seems patronising.

It is a patronising sentiment, but adjacent tonal cues suggest GGGP is offering it ironically, thus in ridicule of performative compliance.

On flipside, note that many regulations - in any human domain - are oriented to raise the level of the worst performing, not to support the efforts of the best or to optimise the middle.

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