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Being Raised by the Internet

jimmyhmiller.github.io

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Re: Being Raised by the Internet

#291

Post by dogleash »

yapyap wrote: post #90
throwanem wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isn't even unreasonable as a cultural norm, although it is that those who most firmly enforce it also cherish silly habits like saying "bring your whole self to work." The expectation of not oversharing needs to be met by a commitment of not over- asking, but I suppose that's really too much to expect in an age so degraded that all the obligations across lines of social class are understood to run in only one di…

you can just… lie

Everyone already does.

They just define lying such that the shielding and misrepresentation they do don't count.

Nobody brings their "whole selves" to work, let alone their "selves." I had a lot of blue collar jobs as a teenager and still pick up the occasional shift at my uncle's shop for a call-out. They're guarded but somehow also make professional office life on the west coast rn look like a pearl clutching competition hosted at a flooded blanket factory.

Re: Being Raised by the Internet

#292

Post by RajT88 »

caseyy wrote: post #193
RajT88 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Continuous learning and development are also values that employees are often invited to practice, though not when there's work to do! These are the things you're supposed to do on the evenings and weekends. Honestly, I'd love it if companies took the tack of giving employees projects based on the skills they want them to develop, instead of the skills they already have.

> These are the things you're supposed to do on the evenings and weekends. Hmm, I wouldn't say so. In many countries it is illegal for an employer to prescribe what their employees should do on evenings and weekends, including up-skilling. Handing out promotions based on what an employee does outside work hours would quickly lead to labor disputes and penalties. I don't deny that employers have this expectation, but…

> I don't deny that employers have this expectation, but it's often another case where if they actually enacted it, it would result in fines.

Right - it's left "between the lines". In the US - salaried employees don't have any protections here AFAIK, so even if it became formalized, they wouldn't get fines.

Re: Being Raised by the Internet

#293

Post by throwanem »

Aachen wrote: post #276
throwanem wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're doing all I could ask. Early in the history of the thread it looked like there would be a turn toward the sort of "Why didn't he just...?" questions that often tend to arise. They're not more useful in this context than any other, and it was that waste of effort on points uselessly missed that I sought to deter.

Ooh, now I finally understand what kind of thing one would want to avoid. The original comment could perhaps have been more concrete by saying something like (for stupid, privileged people like me) > People who've never really known anything but stability in their lives tend to make a lot of assumptions they're not equipped to recognize, so it's usually just better not to create the opportunity [for them to ask "why…

Well, I've never pretended I don't also join these discussions to learn. Thanks for helping that happen!

Bad enough to have been made to learn a lot of things most people never get close to knowing. Explaining some of that knowledge so those people don't need to go through it to get the benefit isn't actually harder, but it can feel that way. It isn't really a case of not being fairly met in the middle, but it can feel that way easily too.

One other note: I've intentionally not used the language of privilege, and I did not call you stupid. If you're anything I'm not in this connection, it's fortunate, and that's not blameworthy nor something I would ever hope to see change.

Indeed the entire point of trying to talk about it at all lies in the hope of making it possible to understand some things about what going through hell can do to a person, without needing to find out firsthand.

Prose seems like an easier medium than the less overt and direct forms of art where such matters are more often openly discussed. I begin to imagine I haven't simplified the task as much as I thought, though, by this assumption.

On that basis I can also recommend Strange New Worlds s2e9 "Under the Cloak of War," which is the most nuanced and honest discussion of the experience of past trauma I think I've ever seen on TV. That it looks up front like a war story is a metaphor that pays off in the last act with a pane of frosted glass. Read it knowing that, and maybe I don't need to say anything else at all.

Re: Being Raised by the Internet

#294

Post by [deleted] »

dogleash wrote: post #291
yapyap wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you can just… lie

Everyone already does. They just define lying such that the shielding and misrepresentation they do don't count. Nobody brings their "whole selves" to work, let alone their "selves." I had a lot of blue collar jobs as a teenager and still pick up the occasional shift at my uncle's shop for a call-out. They're guarded but somehow also make professional office life on the west coast rn look like a pearl clutching compe…

[deleted]

Re: Being Raised by the Internet

#295

Post by wiether »

davidhs wrote: post #252
lukan wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the internet was a gift economy, like burning man: people giving away things of value to all comers because if you don't do that maybe it's because you can't. the good parts of it still are" But it feels like more and more are taken over by money from advertisement. It is allways a relieve to me, find a site in the old spirit.

Also, everything you publicly write today is just used as AI fodder. :/

I had a discussion around this with a friend a few days ago.

They saw it as a bad thing.

But to me it's the same as before : what I decide to share on the Internet is for everyone. If someone find a way to make money with it, it's probably because they made it more easy to find or use for users (customers), so good on them!

As someone who relies on AI quite often to work on new topics, I'm fully aware that what I get is the result of someone else's content being digested by an LLM. With Kagi's Assistant I even got the sources if I want to access it.

If I publish some niche content that is fed to an LLM and then just one person got the answer to their problem through the LLM instead of finding my website through an ad-ridden search engine, I'm more than happy, I helped someone!

Re: Being Raised by the Internet

#296

Post by throwanem »

ryandv wrote: post #235
throwanem wrote: post #13

The author seems about a decade younger than me and "raised" isn't the word I would use for myself, but I doubt I would have made it if not for the friends I made and the things I learned that way. The thing about pulling yourself up out of a bad situation is that you learn to be usually very deliberate in how you talk about it and what you talk about. People who've never really known anything but stability in their…

> People who've never really known anything but stability in their lives tend to make a lot of assumptions they're not equipped to recognize, so it's usually just better not to create the opportunity. Having fell hook, line, and sinker to the conceited and holier-than-thou notion that (progressive) people have been enlightened beyond assuming things such as gender or shared lived experience or even race, I can corrob…

This is why I don't mind making the recommendation. You seem angry in a way I think I recognize. It feels righteous because of the injustice in which it originated, but it also embodies and perpetuates that injustice. Act on it without grave reflection and it will always lead you to do harm.

I want you to read Kingsnorth because I hope that may lead you to see the error in abandoning all hope of the world. He is as clear in it as anyone I know. That is extremely attractive and I want you to think hard about where it leads.

Re: Being Raised by the Internet

#297

Post by Der_Einzige »

pjc50 wrote: post #234
Der_Einzige wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll take even the worst, unkempt dining experience at a deep south waffle house over the treatment that europoor Parisians give to those who don't speak perfect french at even high end restaurants in the heart of Paris. Also, foie gras, traditional veal, and many other European delicacies are disgusting (ethically). Coincidental, even the ghettos of Baltimore/Detroit likely have a higher GDP per capita than most of…

Awful lot of eurohate for someone posting with a German username.

Max Stirner is the only good thing Germany ever produced.

Re: Being Raised by the Internet

#298

Post by ghodith »

amatecha wrote: post #209
ghodith wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the first generation of UBI recipients, sure. I'm more concerned about the people that will grow up having never worked.

By the time I was old enough to work, I had recorded dozens of my own songs and made countless websites for fun. I made computer graphics and learned tons about computers and could fix them for all my friends and family. These were all forms of "work", valuable to others (to varying degrees), and I received zero payment for any of that. People like to do things, particularly things that benefit those they care about.…

Aside from the strong selection bias, you've also been raised in a culture that both works and values work.

Now imagine you're a third generation UBI recipient. Your parents never worked, and you're surrounded by people who don't even "work" in the way which you describe it.

At that point, I have very little hope, even for people predisposed to it like you.

Re: Being Raised by the Internet

#299

Post by dllthomas »

throwanem wrote: post #289
amatecha wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've imagined this future, and I did think of one possible workaround that may or may not be feasible: morse code. One of my motives for learning it is, you can "copy" morse code by any of your senses except taste. I've imagined where I may be blind, or deaf, or even both. As long as I have the sense of touch somewhere about my body at the bare minimum, and can move a finger, I could communicate via morse code. I kno…

You would need someone who understands Morse to notice and interpret. The same dexterity can also operate a pen, and this is the option I have more often seen used. Neither is likely to be a much richer channel than the other, I think.

I think you probably need more dexterity (and grip strength) for minimal successful communication with a pen than with Morse code, especially if you wind up trying to do both without visual feedback.

The odds of those around you noticing is something you have some power over, if you're thinking about it ahead of time.

Re: Being Raised by the Internet

#300

Post by gradientsrneat »

avg_dev wrote: post #94

a beautiful post. it's really nice when we get posts like this here, just personally i find it very meaningful. > But sometimes the employees there would give me the employee discount, I guess they realized I needed it. that is such a heart-warming thing. i would maybe argue the following point in the article: > People whose work was not aimed at me in the slightest. idk. i think that part of the point of being open…

w3schools was how I first started learning programming and I still find it useful sometimes.

I too saw the snobs.

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