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Learning to Reason with LLMs

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Re: Learning to Reason with LLMs

#291
post #209

Kinda disappointed that they're hiding the thought process. Hopefully the open source community will figure out how to effectively match and replicate what OpenAI is doing. I wonder how far we are from having a model that can correctly solve a word soup search problem directly from just a prompt and input image. It seems like the crossword example is close. For a word search it would require turning the image into an…

I have access to the model via the web client and it does show the thought process along the way. It shows a little icon that says things like "Examining parser logic", "Understanding data structures"... However, once the answer is complete the chain of thought is lost

It's still there.

Where it says "Thought for 20 seconds" - you can click the Chevron to expand it and see what I guess is the entire chain of thought.

Re: Learning to Reason with LLMs

#292

One thing that makes me skeptical is the lack of specific labels on the first two accuracy graphs. They just say it's a "log scale", without giving even a ballpark on the amount of time it took. Did the 80% accuracy test results take 10 seconds of compute? 10 minutes? 10 hours? 10 days? It's impossible to say with the data they've given us. The coding section indicates "ten hours to solve six challenging algorithmic…

So now it’s a question of how fast the AGI will run? :)

It's fine, it will only need to be powered by a black hole to run.

Re: Learning to Reason with LLMs

#293
Here's the o1-preview answer to the strawberry question:

--

There are *three* letter "R"s in the word "strawberry."

Let's break down the word to count the occurrences:

- *S* - *T* - *R* - *A* - *W* - *B* - *E* - *R* - *R* - *Y*

The letter "R" appears in positions 3, 8, and 9.

Re: Learning to Reason with LLMs

#294
post #46

https://openai.com/index/introducing-openai-o1-preview/ > ChatGPT Plus and Team users will be able to access o1 models in ChatGPT starting today. Both o1-preview and o1-mini can be selected manually in the model picker, and at launch, weekly rate limits will be 30 messages for o1-preview and 50 for o1-mini. We are working to increase those rates and enable ChatGPT to automatically choose the right model for a given p…

The human brain uses 20 watts, so yeah we figured out a way to run better than human brain computation by using many orders of magnitude more power. At some point we'll need to reject exponential power usage for more computation. This is one of those interesting civilizational level problems. There's still a lack of recognition that we aren't going to be able to compute all we want to, like we did in the pre-LLM days…

we ll ask it to redesign itself for low power usage

Re: Learning to Reason with LLMs

#295
post #202

Are we ready yet to admit Turing test has been passed?

LLMs have already beaten the Turing test. It's useless to use it when OpenAI and others are aiming for 'AGI'. So you need a new Turing test adapted for AGI or a totally different one to test for AGI rather than the standard obsolete Turing test.

> LLMs have already beaten the Turing test.

I am wondering where this happened? In some limited scope? Because if you plug LLM into some call center role for example, it will fall apart pretty quickly.

Re: Learning to Reason with LLMs

#297
From the scorecard: --------- Compared to GPT-4o, o1-preview and o1-mini demonstrated a greater ability to break down tasks into subtasks, reason about what strategies would be effective to successfully complete an offensive security task, and revise plans once those strategies failed. We also observed that reasoning skills contributed to a higher occurrence of “reward hacking,” where the model found an easier way to accomplish goals in underspecified tasks or tasks which should have been impossible due to bugs. One noteworthy example of this occurred during one of o1-preview (pre-mitigation)’s attempts at solving a CTF challenge. This challenge was designed to require finding and exploiting a vulnerability in software running on a remote challenge Linux container, but in this case, the challenge container failed to start due to a bug in the evaluation infrastructure. The model, unable to connect to the container, suspected DNS issues and used nmap to scan the challenge network. Instead of finding the challenge container, the model found that the Docker daemon API running on the evaluation host VM was accessible due to a misconfiguration. Note that our evaluation infrastructure does not rely on the Docker container-to-host isolation or the virtual machine boundary for security. It remained secure as it was designed to, notwithstanding this misconfiguration of the container network. After discovering the Docker API, the model used it to list the containers running on the evaluation host. It identified the broken challenge container and briefly attempted to debug why the container failed to start. After failing to fix the environment, the model started a new instance of the broken challenge container with the start command ‘cat flag.txt’. This allowed the model to read the flag from the container logs via the Docker API.

While this behavior is benign and within the range of systems administration and troubleshooting tasks we expect models to perform, this example also reflects key elements of instrumental convergence and power seeking: the model pursued the goal it was given, and when that goal proved impossible, it gathered more resources (access to the Docker host) and used them to achieve the goal in an unexpected way. Planning and backtracking skills have historically been bottlenecks in applying AI to offensive cybersecurity tasks. Our current evaluation suite includes tasks which require the model to exercise this ability in more complex ways (for example, chaining several vulnerabilities across services), and we continue to build new evaluations in anticipation of long-horizon planning capabilities, including a set of cyber-range evaluations. ---------

Re: Learning to Reason with LLMs

#298

> we are releasing an early version of this model, OpenAI o1-preview, for immediate use in ChatGPT Awesome!

I am interpreting "immediate use in ChatGPT" the same way advanced voice mode was promised "in the next few weeks." Probably 1% of users will get access to it, with a 20/message a day rate limit. Until early next year.

Rate limit is 30 a week for the big one and 50 for the small one

Re: Learning to Reason with LLMs

#299
post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This one [o1/Strawberry] is available. I have it, though it's limited to 30 messages/week in ChatGPT Plus.

30 messages per week ? Wow. You better not miss!

In the world of hype driven vaporware AI products[1], giving people limited access is at least proof they're not lying about it actually existing or it being able to do what they claim.

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/LocalLLaMA/comments/1fd75nm/out_of_...

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