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Leaving Neovim for Zed

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Re: Leaving Neovim for Zed

#291

Post by whalesalad »

p4bl0 wrote: post #229

A lot of editors are being discussed here but I see nobody has mentioned Kate (KDE's Advanced Text Editor) [1] in the conversation yet, so I'm doing it. Kate is a very mature and capable editor, and even if I only use it on Linux I'm glad to know that it is also available on macOS and Windows. It natively supports LSP and has much, much more to offer in terms of project management, support for build system, support f…

I use kate a lot when I need to inspect a huge file. Love the built-in rainbow rendering of columns for a CSV. Definitely a solid editor considering it is free and open source. I haven't done any serious dev with it though.

Re: Leaving Neovim for Zed

#292

Post by seabrookmx »

tecoholic wrote: post #171
seabrookmx wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, yes. But you can't really expect a syntax highlighter to support every combination of template language and file language, so this seems reasonable enough.

I understand the limitation. Especially in the context of having the entire syntax tree parsed and stored like Zed. I didn’t expect it to highlight 2 languages. I just wanted the Dockefile parts to be highlighted. But Zed stopped any highlighting after the first curly brace, which produces inferior results compared to the regex (assuming) based highlighters out there.

Right but the curly brace is invalid syntax in a Dockerfile. It's valid IMO for the parser to bail when it encounters this.

I see what you're saying that other highlighters are continuing gracefully though.

Re: Leaving Neovim for Zed

#293

Post by lelanthran »

troupo wrote: post #285
lelanthran wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why the antagonism? Programmable editors don't work for you, fine. Why make personal attacks on me, like this: > you pretend that I'm not pretending anything. > Thing is, you don't remember "fewer things" with Emacs/Vim. You end up remembering about the same, or greater number of things Not true. Like I said, I use an IDE daily, and there's much more to remember to get the same functionality that I get out of (for ex…

> It's easier for me to remember (for example) 10 nouns that can be combined with 10 verbs than to memorise 100 shortcuts. 1. There are no nouns or verbs in Vim. There's a haphazardly built combination of letters that are laboriously explained as some grand design. 2. You keep coming up with random numbers that make no sense and pretend (yes, pretend) that they are somehow true and relevant I didn't memorise 100 shor…

> 1. There are no nouns or verbs in Vim.

Yes, there is.

Since your entire argument is predicated on a false premise, maybe you should stop digging at this point?

Re: Leaving Neovim for Zed

#294

Post by actuallyalys »

_7tgr wrote: post #167
seanhunter wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that you constantly need to tweak your config files in vim/neovim is a bizarre myth that seems to have sprung up because vim is so flexible that some people love messing about with config. You can just copy something like vim-sensible to give sensible defaults and get going - you absolutely don't have to do a bunch of tinkering. I have used vim and then neovim for 24 years now and most of my config customiza…

Agreed. I've been using (n)vim for roughly 8 years now and only touch my config to put in bits of Lua I've hacked together to make my life slightly easier (~10 minutes every few months? I just do it as-needed). I use 5-6 plugins total. I think the most vocal users are probably responsible for the impression of constant churn, because they've got fancy tricked out configs loaded with alpha-quality plugins and probably…

Yeah, there definitely seems to be quite a bit of churn for people who adopt the newest plugins, and I think that can lead to the impression that Vim and Neovim require constant configuration maintenance. I don’t think the churn is necessarily bad for people interested in spending a lot of time on their configuration because it means there’s a lot of experimentation, which eventually makes its way to the whole community.

Re: Leaving Neovim for Zed

#295

Post by vldx »

troupo wrote: post #285
lelanthran wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why the antagonism? Programmable editors don't work for you, fine. Why make personal attacks on me, like this: > you pretend that I'm not pretending anything. > Thing is, you don't remember "fewer things" with Emacs/Vim. You end up remembering about the same, or greater number of things Not true. Like I said, I use an IDE daily, and there's much more to remember to get the same functionality that I get out of (for ex…

> It's easier for me to remember (for example) 10 nouns that can be combined with 10 verbs than to memorise 100 shortcuts. 1. There are no nouns or verbs in Vim. There's a haphazardly built combination of letters that are laboriously explained as some grand design. 2. You keep coming up with random numbers that make no sense and pretend (yes, pretend) that they are somehow true and relevant I didn't memorise 100 shor…

I agree. Honestly, I’m proficient with vim/emacs, but I’ve been using JetBrains for ~13 years and don’t want to sound boastful, but I’m pretty sure I’ll run circles around non-trivial amount of vim users in terms of productivity/efficiency/raw text editing. The amount of time I’ve put in customizing my workflow is stupid. The false dichotomy that if you use IDE you must be point-clicking around menus is often repeated. I guess … know your tool of choice inside-out is what’s more important.

Re: Leaving Neovim for Zed

#296

Post by dcre »

danielvaughn wrote: post #131
Voklen wrote: post #109

For me this feels similar to why I use Helix[1]. I used to use VSCodium and had tried to switch to Vim or Neovim multiple times but didn't manage because of all the plugin configuration to be able to program. Then I saw an HN post about Helix, started it up and it just worked and so haven't used anything else since. I find the Helix keybindings easier to learn because you see what text will be affected by any operati…

I also heard about Helix and have been curious about it, for the same reason. If I’m going to learn Vim keybindings, it’s because I want to move fast. Tweaking configuration files for an evening is the exact opposite of moving fast.

Give Helix a try. If you happen not to depend intensely on a few big IDE features it's missing, it's wonderful.

Re: Leaving Neovim for Zed

#297

Post by the456gamer »

p4bl0 wrote: post #229

A lot of editors are being discussed here but I see nobody has mentioned Kate (KDE's Advanced Text Editor) [1] in the conversation yet, so I'm doing it. Kate is a very mature and capable editor, and even if I only use it on Linux I'm glad to know that it is also available on macOS and Windows. It natively supports LSP and has much, much more to offer in terms of project management, support for build system, support f…

I've had issues with kate loosing unsaved files, as well as lagging on large files due to the automatic text wrapping

I've replaced unsaved files in Kate with obsidian.md personally, as there if there is somewhere I can type, I know it will be persisted to disk.

Re: Leaving Neovim for Zed

#298

Post by stassats »

tmtvl wrote: post #254
lelanthran wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> `C-shift-P` works the same in VS Code (and other editors) as `M-x` in Emacs. I slightly disagree with this assertion. I upvoted you anyway because I think it's mostly correct for those who aren't full into Emacs :-) My reason for disagreement: `M-x` in Emacs gives you access to every single thing that the editor can do (like the function to move the point forward with `forward-char`). The `C-s-p` in VSCode doesn't…

As long as we're being pedantic: M-x only gives access to every single interactive function (which means every function which has the `(interactive)` statement). I can't speak as how to that relates to Microsoft VS Code's 'C-s-p' though.

There's M-:

Re: Leaving Neovim for Zed

#299

Post by dimal »

kstenerud wrote: post #191

> I was already a keyboard maximalist from previous jobs where I learned speed = productivity I've never understood this. In over 30 years in the industry, I've not once held a job where my keyboard speed had a noticeable effect on my productivity. Even when I had to type one-handed for a month, my productivity was unchanged. The average developer averages 10 lines of finished code per day. And even with a raw 10x th…

I agree that 90% of software development happens in the mind, but also that being a keyboard maximalist makes sense, at least for me.

First of all, there’s the ease with which I can get those ideas out of my mind and into working code. If I’m fiddling with a mouse and dragging things around in some virtual 2D space, it adds cognitive load and puts my mind in the wrong mode for coding. When I’m editing in vim, it’s easy to get into flow.

There’s also the case that when I’m planning my solution, I’m also using a text editor with vim bindings, so I can get into the same flow state more easily as I’m doing software design.

And even though a coder might only produce an average of ten lines of code per day, that doesn’t mean I’m producing 10 lines each day. Some days I produce none, and other days I produce a hundred, so it makes sense to optimize for the days when I’m producing a hundred.

Beyond that, even the idea of producing a line of code seems to assume that you’re only writing new code. I’d say that 70-80% of my coding is refactoring. I’m either refactoring existing code or refactoring the code I’m writing as I go. The ten lines I write in a given day may have been written as thirty lines in the first draft, then edited down. So, again, optimizing for flow here makes sense.

Re: Leaving Neovim for Zed

#300

Post by [deleted] »

magnio wrote: post #68
tecoholic wrote: post #63

I tried Zed just yesterday and sadly my experience wasn’t “just works”. It just works if you haven’t used any of the Neovim configs/distributions. But for someone who already uses LazyVim, LunarVim..etc., it’s kind of meeting the expectations. The issue for me was with the Docker LSP. I have a codebase where a Dockerfile is a Jinja Template. Zed’s syntax highlighting broke at the first curly braces. Both my Doom EMac…

> I have a codebase where a Dockerfile is a Jinja Template. Jesus

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