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Verso – Web browser built on top of the Servo web engine

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Re: Verso – Web browser built on top of the Servo web engine

#291

Post by odo1242 »

zackbrown wrote: post #268
atoav wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to point us to a better combination than HTML/CSS when it comes to layouting flexible interfaces? Don't get me wrong, I also could imagine better markup languages for that purpose. But everything I have seen in the wild was worse in multiple, show-stopping ways. Maybe instead of coming up with a new thing, we just need a clear way to solve the pain points and put the solutions into CSS4 and HTML6

> Care to point us to a better combination than HTML/CSS when it comes to layouting flexible interfaces? HTML/CSS is pretty good! SwiftUI's HStack and VStack are solid, though they suffer from ambient API complexity & Conway's law.[0] Figma's autolayout is a strong reference, but it's not a tool for creating software. > Maybe instead of coming up with a new thing, we just need a clear way to solve the pain points and…

Flutter’s also very good, though it suffers from the same tradeoffs as SwiftUI

Re: Verso – Web browser built on top of the Servo web engine

#293

Post by shdon »

nequo wrote: post #229
azangru wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't dont be even easier?

As an acceptable compromise we can separate all punctuation and put it at the end of the paragraph Although some oldfashioned enthusiasts of the Chicago Manual of Style will object But I think its good to bring some fresh ideas to our old and worn orthographyevery now and again,.-…’—.

Or write an entire book without them, then publish a second edition with an appendix of just punctuation marks, for the reader to place wherever they feel is appropriate. Oh wait... Timothy Dexter already did that... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Pickle_for_the_Knowing_Ones

Re: Verso – Web browser built on top of the Servo web engine

#294

Post by bbatha »

mappu wrote: post #246
culi wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh thanks. Seems like Servo is way ahead of LadyBird

It's hard to summarize like that since Ladybird is still ahead in many individual tests including important ones (e.g. acid3 at https://staging.wpt.fyi/results/acid/acid3/numbered-tests.ht... ).

acid3 isn't particularly important as it doesn't even match modern standards. Modern chrome and firefox only pass 97/100 tests.

Re: Verso – Web browser built on top of the Servo web engine

#295

Post by fabrice_d »

einpoklum wrote: post #262
fabrice_d wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how you concluded that it's a "somewhat Mac-centric" project. Can you elaborate?

Their best deployment/installation instructions are for Macs, and for Linux they suggest things like nix-shell or flatpak, rather than straight-up packages for the popular distributions/package management systems. That's my reading of things, anyway.

Running `./mach package` will create a tarball you can use easily in any distribution. Not perfect, but I would say good enough at this stage of the project - remember Servo is not a browser, it's a browser runtime that needs to be embedded. The `servoshell` itself is just a basic example to show how the embedding works.

Re: Verso – Web browser built on top of the Servo web engine

#296

Post by replete »

zackbrown wrote: post #227
ksec wrote: post #5

So we will, in ~5 years time have two new browser, one in Rust and one in Swift. I hope in the process of doing it we will find new ways of doing things.

> I hope in the process of doing it we will find new ways of doing things. HTML & CSS themselves have become a major bottleneck to quality and creativity. The arcane layout model, the baggage of backwards compatibility, the cognitive dissonance — played out over decades of design-by-committee — between "this is a document engine" and "this is an app engine." The rendering-thread-is-the-main-thread architecture of JS…

`Waiting for fonts.googleapis...`, pax website was blank for a couple of minutes, might want to reconsider making third-party fonts non blocking on your website so it doesn't appear broken/empty when a third-party CDN edge is slow.

Re: Verso – Web browser built on top of the Servo web engine

#297

Post by mdaniel »

mrkramer wrote: post #121
fabrice_d wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and that's why Chromium moved to allow Rust code (pretty much like they did for Android).

They said some of the code can be rewritten in Rust but majority of the code cannot. Therefore they are stuck with C++ forever. Scary thing to think about.

> but majority of the code cannot

Do you have a citation for "cannot"? Maybe "prefer not because of non-functional requirements" but if it's a choice between a ~~webpage~~ ad vector loading 10 seconds slower versus the goddamn plague of RCEs coming out of Chrome, I know which one I'd take

Re: Verso – Web browser built on top of the Servo web engine

#298

Post by TheRealPomax »

ncruces wrote: post #194
TheRealPomax wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been using Windows as dev platform since it was called "DOS but don't look too closely", I know chocolatey, ninite, winget, and powershell's own built-in nonsense, and yet had never head of scoop until just now. So... that really just tells us that any application manager we think is popular, ubiquitous, and the obvious choice is still really just a niche program =( Contrast that to brew on MacOS: ever non-devs…

And from all of those, which I'd heard of, I think scoop is the only one to allow a package author to just create a git repo, and publish a package that way. Like brew does. That why I use scoop. Chocolatey would rather charge money for that, for some reason, and people are still willing to donate them their free time.

Nice!

Re: Verso – Web browser built on top of the Servo web engine

#299

Post by mrkramer »

mdaniel wrote: post #297
mrkramer wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They said some of the code can be rewritten in Rust but majority of the code cannot. Therefore they are stuck with C++ forever. Scary thing to think about.

> but majority of the code cannot Do you have a citation for "cannot"? Maybe "prefer not because of non-functional requirements" but if it's a choice between a ~~webpage~~ ad vector loading 10 seconds slower versus the goddamn plague of RCEs coming out of Chrome, I know which one I'd take

>Over the past decades, in addition to large Java and Go memory-safe codebases, Google has developed and accumulated hundreds of millions of lines of C++ code that is in active use and under active, ongoing development. This very large existing codebase results in significant challenges for a transition to memory safety:

We see no realistic path for an evolution of C++ into a language with rigorous memory safety guarantees that include temporal safety.

A large-scale rewrite of all existing C++ code into a different, memory-safe language appears very difficult and will likely remain impractical[0].

[0] https://security.googleblog.com/2024/03/secure-by-design-goo....

Long story short; they are stuck with millions of C++ LOC and they can't transition to Rust completely because of the enormous complexity of various gigantic codebases e.g. Android, Chrome or whatever they want to move to memory-safe language/s.

They said they will try to write as much new native code in Rust as they can plus they will interop from C++ to Rust in order to reduce memory-safety bugs.

Re: Verso – Web browser built on top of the Servo web engine

#300

Post by fabrice_d »

cjpearson wrote: post #292
feverzsj wrote: post #241

As Mozilla chose to abandon it, is Firefox still using servo?

Stylo (CSS Engine) and WebRender (compositor) came from Servo and are still used in Firefox. I believe the Mozilla team still upstreams patches as well.

Actually Mozilla is the upstream for both projects now.
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