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Aphantasia: I can not picture things in my mind

theguardian.com

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Re: Aphantasia: I can not picture things in my mind

#291

Post by e38383 »

prng2021 wrote: post #91
e38383 wrote: post #25

Every time I’m reading about Aphantasia, I’m confused again that people really see stuff in their head. I have basically the same as the person in the article. So, if you want to know anything, AMA. I’m also trying to respond to a few questions which are already asked.

Based on the article and the comments here, it sounds like the way you remember things must be missing a lot of details. I'm speculating here because I just saw a movie today at a theater and I can playback scenes in my mind. I can certainly describe a scene with words but that's clearly very limiting. At the very least, I don't have words to map to all the colors my eyes can detect. Do you think that's accurate? Tha…

Movies and TV shows are a really exciting topic. But first to your questions: You are totally right, I can't recall a scene from a movie with all the details. I couldn't paint it, as I'm not seeing it like when it's right in front of me (in the movie). But I could definitely describe it and it will sound indistinguishable from what you would describe, the difference is that I'm remembering the description and you are remembering the scene itself.

Rewatching a movie is the same, I remember seeing the movie and I also remember all the scenes (the ones I remember); you might remember a scene by color and "images", I remember it by description or concept. But the result is the same: I remember having seen it.

A really nice perk (for me) is that I don't remember the individual actors. I remember the role played, but not who has played it. It's not like I cannot distinguish actors from another, but I just don't remember actor X played this and that role. I really don't understand the problems with changing actors in sequels, it's the same role; maybe played a little bit different, but still the same role.

I know a total of maybe 5 to 10 actors which I recognize among different movies.

Re: Aphantasia: I can not picture things in my mind

#292

Post by e38383 »

acjohnson55 wrote: post #109
SaidinWoT wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it sounds like the way you remember things must be missing a lot of details. > Do you think that's accurate? I don't think someone with aphantasia (of which I am one!) is really capable of assessing this - which details our memories have routinely omitted is an unknown unknown until we're explicitly made conscious of the gap. With regard to your example of a movie, I think you may be overweighting the importance of…

Interestingly, I think my tendency to visualize makes me a slow reader. I can suppress it with effort, but typically my pace slows down to let me imagine observing the story.

I don't think that's part of "visualization" itself. I don't visualize a scene, but I still can take a long time if it's interesting or has a lot of detail. I remember reading the Lord of the Rings books and it has really long descriptions of the scenery and sometime it took me a very long time to read it, just so I can get all the details. In other parts I read over it as fast as I could to get on with the story.

I imagine that's the same for "both sides".

Re: Aphantasia: I can not picture things in my mind

#293

Post by e38383 »

shostack wrote: post #124
prng2021 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on the article and the comments here, it sounds like the way you remember things must be missing a lot of details. I'm speculating here because I just saw a movie today at a theater and I can playback scenes in my mind. I can certainly describe a scene with words but that's clearly very limiting. At the very least, I don't have words to map to all the colors my eyes can detect. Do you think that's accurate? Tha…

A good way to think about what it is like to be color blind in a world where others see more colors is to consider tetrachromats. From Google: > "People with tetrachromacy have a fourth cone in their retinas, called a tetrachromat, that allows them to see up to 100 million colors, compared to the average person's 1 million. This extra cone gives them access to new color ranges within the yellow and green spectrum, wh…

As the saying goes: it's impossible to imagine a new color.

Re: Aphantasia: I can not picture things in my mind

#294

Post by Melatonic »

markers wrote: post #202
isoprophlex wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds incredibly sad and frustrating. I can't imagine what it's like to suddenly lose that ability, being so dependent on it. Indeed many of my childhood memories are mostly sequences of pictures, the emotional content kind of "floats" on the imagery. It must be very frustrating, being forced to reinvent how you experience your inner life and memories. Edit, after reading some more comments: are you musically i…

It sucks, but that's life - there are worse things and life is still plenty enjoyable. In addition, I lost my sense of smell/taste completely and that was much worse to be honest (but still, you learn to live without and focus on what's good). If I had to choose between the two, I'd choose being able to smell/taste any day. Funnily enough not because of food, but actually because of the added experience you get when…

Smell is super tied to memory so that could be the cause of your imagery issues. I almost completely lose my sense of smell due to concussions in early adulthood but occasionally it randomly comes back (briefly) in full force. Anything I smell at that time triggers very visual memories in my head from childhood.

Re: Aphantasia: I can not picture things in my mind

#295

Post by phito »

harimau777 wrote: post #258

I've sometimes wondered if I could have aphantasia or perhaps be low enough on the visual imagery spectrum to have some of the practical effects of aphantasia. When I try to visualize an object, I can in some sense visualize it but it feels very indistinct. It's like I can't see the object as a whole only the specific details I focus on. For example, I have a friend who wears circular glasses and has a handlebar must…

I think that's normal. At least that's also how it works for me.

Re: Aphantasia: I can not picture things in my mind

#296

Post by e38383 »

solumunus wrote: post #236
gnz11 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am also the same as the person in the article. Pure speculation on my part, but I am convinced that it’s the people who can fully visualize things that are the outliers and not the other way around.

How do you navigate via memory without some degree of mental visualisation? I’m convinced many aphantasia folk are just heavily overrating what other people are describing as visualisation, as if it’s some kind of minority report style interface that appears before you and is perceived by the eye. It’s simply being able to reconstruct physical entities as mental models. Again, without being able to do that it just se…

The difference is the recognition. If you tell me "to go right at the wall with the lion on it and left after the blue door" you're giving me an immense difficult task. If you want to totally screw me just show me pictures of the wall and the blue door, I probably be really lost.

It's not only about what is visualizable, but also what form of representation is comparable. I can read a map in a matter of seconds and find my way. I can find a car plate within my line of sight instantly. The way to the parking lot behind the and finding the blue there is basically impossible for me. Of course I'm able to concentrate, but it doesn't come naturally.

Re: Aphantasia: I can not picture things in my mind

#297

Post by beedeebeedee »

I feel like I have two visual fields. One that feels like it is through my eyes and of the outside world, and then another that has images or ideas that I can conjure up (almost like eigenfaces or other low resolution concepts). The second visual field isn't within the first, but feels like it is also roughly centered where my brain is.

Re: Aphantasia: I can not picture things in my mind

#298

Post by skinkestek »

harimau777 wrote: post #258

I've sometimes wondered if I could have aphantasia or perhaps be low enough on the visual imagery spectrum to have some of the practical effects of aphantasia. When I try to visualize an object, I can in some sense visualize it but it feels very indistinct. It's like I can't see the object as a whole only the specific details I focus on. For example, I have a friend who wears circular glasses and has a handlebar must…

I think I used to be able to visualize earlier but by the time I learned about aphantasia I had already gone years without it.

Why I cannot say.

Sometimes when I get a lot of sleep and relaxation I think I can visualize in ny head.

Oh, and I can visualize at least one relative, but only a certain passport image of that person.

And I can draw to some degree, so I clearly know roughly what things look like even if I cannot visualize it internally.

Re: Aphantasia: I can not picture things in my mind

#299

Post by dekhn »

harimau777 wrote: post #258

I've sometimes wondered if I could have aphantasia or perhaps be low enough on the visual imagery spectrum to have some of the practical effects of aphantasia. When I try to visualize an object, I can in some sense visualize it but it feels very indistinct. It's like I can't see the object as a whole only the specific details I focus on. For example, I have a friend who wears circular glasses and has a handlebar must…

that's basically what I experience. When I learned that many artists picture their entire drawing in detail, and then put it down on page roughly as they imagine it, I couldn't even imagine that.

Re: Aphantasia: I can not picture things in my mind

#300

Post by e38383 »

jart wrote: post #87
e38383 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, like images it's just the concept of the sound. As I can identify images (also people or faces), I can identify sounds, but I can't imagine them. Instead of a picture of a forest and some cracking of wood, I just have these words in my head and not the real picture/sound. Same for every other sense.

How fast do you read? I can visualize just about anything I've ever seen. I can dream of new visual experiences I've never had. I can even rotate shapes in my head. But I dislike words and I read very slowly (only for English though, with programming I'm a speed reader of code). If you're the opposite of me, then I bet you're able to absorb intelligent high-quality information independent of experience very very quic…

I read about three times as fast as other people. I'm still not better in absorbing the information, I also make errors and miss key points.

The difference is that a book is already in a format I don't need to convert (to images) anymore.

About the 3x: if I need to show someone something to read on a screen and need to wait to scroll to the next page, I just read it 3 times and scroll then, it normally fits a "normal" reading speed.

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