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How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

blog.simonrumble.com

291–300 of 324 posts

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, electronics design does not operate outside the bounds of economics. Given a target retail price of ~$1.25/unit -- many of these bulbs are the best design possible. The existence of poor quality products does not indicate malice -- many buyers demand low end products. Cost/quality/performance is an engineering tradeoff without a "correct" answer. The answer is up to the opinion of the customer.

I think that argument only holds when the customer is informed about those specific tradeoffs. The customer will choose the cheap bulbs because they can't be sure the expensive ones are better quality. They often aren't. Buyers want cheap bulbs, they don't want crap bulbs. If that means $1.25/unit is impossible, so be it.

> They often aren't.

And sometimes the better quality isn't worth the price. I bought a "Coochear" brushcutter on Amazon for a whopping $125 when my more expensive Husqvarna died due to a spun main bearing. At $125, I didn't care if it lasted longer than the time it would take me to remove the saplings that I needed to. The thing goes through 2" trees like they weren't even there. Yeah, it vibrates a lot more than it should and runs really rich, but it works a lot better than I expected for that price.

I know that I could have gotten another Husq that would work great but I really don't want to spend $600 for something that only gets used a couple times a year.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#292

I predict that this is going to get more and more common: Companies enshittify their service, hiding behind impenetrable walls of AI chatbots and useless outsourced template-reply service centers, customers respond by taking one attempt to resolve it with the company and then straight to court. If you have a working small claims court system, I can recommend giving it a try. It can be way less frustrating than trying…

They're rolling out the arbitration clauses like mad recently though. There was an HN post a few years ago about going to arbitration and winning, so it's not a complete lost cause but I guess the damages would be less.

Arbitration is great for companies for multiple reasons:

- it avoids costly class actions in "big" cases - it avoids costly discovery in "big" cases - it avoids sky-high damages claims in extreme cases - it allows small everyday fuck-ups to be handled more cheaply than a court

However, I'd argue that for this kind of issue, arbitration isn't necessarily worse. Especially in a clear-cut case, you don't need the court to win, you just need the court to trigger an escalation at the company. Arbitration is good enough for that.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#293
post #172

I don't envy Australian's most things but this is one worthy of it.

Out of curiosity, as an Australian, what is unenviable?

The total lack of free speech is pretty messed up. Am I correct that you can’t even have blood come out when someone is hurt in a video game marketed to adults?

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm convinced this happened recently with LED bulbs as well, even though I've found no definitive proof. The LEDs I installed in my house 10-12 years ago are still going strong, but every newer one I've purchased gives up the ghost within a couple of years. And I only purchase brands with a good reputation, like Feit and the like.

There is definitive proof. They over-drive the LEDs which is why they die so quickly. If they were under-driven they last much much longer. It's the heat that kills them IIRC.

WTF do you mean? All led lamps are PWM meaning they flicker meaning they are not at 100% over time.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#295
post #96
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Planned obsolescence is very real, but the reality of incandescent light bulbs means that lifespan, efficiency, and luminosity are not independent. The 1000 hours limit is in practice a lower bound to a combination of luminosity and efficiency

Literally in that linked wiki article: > "A longer life bulb of a given wattage puts out less light (and proportionally more heat) than a shorter life bulb of the same wattage" As long as we can recycle (or at least safely get rid of) the burned out ones I'd say its a win from ecology perspective, and at least in some cases also for end users. But this wasnt the main driver of the change, it was the good ol' corporat…

I believe that the main drive was to stop a race to the bottom where everybody would advertize 1000000 hours lightbulbs but they all sucked and the technology would be considered worthless.

I seriously doubt you can recycle the tungsten as it literally evaporates and oxidize on the lightbulb.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#296
post #157
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Planned obsolescence is very real, but the reality of incandescent light bulbs means that lifespan, efficiency, and luminosity are not independent. The 1000 hours limit is in practice a lower bound to a combination of luminosity and efficiency

LED diodes can theoretically last decades given the correct drivers (current and heat needs to be significantly limited), unfortunately they are the very definition of planned obsolescence. https://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/the-l-e-d-quanda... A stable DC current and temperature limited LED can easily last decades.

I agree that LED lights are a better example of planned obolescence.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering an oven is essentially just a control panel, a fan or two, some sensors and a heating element, there's no reason why these shouldn't last for decades. As long as no exotic or custom components are used they should be easy to find parts and repair too

...so they use "exotic" custom components. Not that the controller board on a washing machine is particularly exotic; it's made from standard components. But each model of washing machine has it's own controller board, so the boards are low-volume, and ridiculously expensive. And the boards themselves are about as easy to repair as any modern PCB covered in SMDs. I suspect the reason that white goods nowadays all hav…

Not to mention that washing machine PCBs have to function in an environment which is notoriously hazardous for electronics: very high humidity/moisture, and very high vibration. The last time I took a look at my washing machine's PCB while I was replacing the door seal, I noticed that it was potted in epoxy, which neatly resolves the durability issue which simultaneously making it impossible to repair. I don't blame them, diagnosing which component has failed on a circuit board which is constantly failing due to abuse and replacing it requires a much higher level of skill (and thus more expensive repairs) than just replacing the board wholesale.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example gorilla glass/protective glass has improved in technology, but thinner screens (for thinner devices) have eaten up the benefits of stronger tech. This is an interesting point. I didn't think about it, but it makes sense. Are there any "chonky" mobile phones with very thick cases & screens... like the Panasonic ToughBook?

A variety of manufacturers has them, CAT e.g., but even Samsung has been having a line of them for over a decade. Manufacturers also keep making phones with headphone jacks, sd slots, swappable batteries, and all the other features that people loudly insist they want in their phones, right until it comes to choosing a new phone to buy. Then they buy something thin and flimsy again and repeat the whine cycle; and ever…

I mean, if you want a supported phone with a headphone jack and swappable battery, you're pretty much just down to the Samsung Galaxy Xcover now, which has a CPU from 6 years ago and no fingerprint reader. It's definitely possible, but nowadays there's major tradeoffs to get features that used to be standard.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#299
post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They go broke or rely on an ever growing market, ie housing is always being built (most of your examples). But Instant Pot is the classic example of going broke because everyone bought exactly one of their products and never needed another (ignoring the three we have...)

I wish there was more tolerance for the Instant Pot situation in big business. Build a great product, sell wildly for many years, inventor becomes a multi-millionaire, many people are employed at good wages for a while, stock holders / investors make a reasonable return, millions upon millions of satisfied customers, and... that's it. The end of that particular story. Keep a perfunctory tidbit of the once great compa…

> chugging along to provide replacement parts

That's the expensive bit. That's a lot of machinery and tooling sitting around mostly doing nothing.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#300

> Now an old fashioned light bulb shouldn't be expected to last a decade, but an oven? Funnily enough, there actually was the Phoebus cartel [1] which sought to reduce the lifespan of incandescent light bulbs to around 1,000 hours and raise prices. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel

I'm convinced this happened recently with LED bulbs as well, even though I've found no definitive proof. The LEDs I installed in my house 10-12 years ago are still going strong, but every newer one I've purchased gives up the ghost within a couple of years. And I only purchase brands with a good reputation, like Feit and the like.

I recommend watching this:

https://hackaday.com/2021/01/17/leds-from-dubai-the-royal-li...

Only shows you bulbs can be made well and last long. But those are not for you. (Assuming most readers here are not Saudi)

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