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I like the RP2040

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Re: I like the RP2040

#291

Post by squarefoot »

jvanderbot wrote: post #156
flohoff wrote: post #80

The issue is that its a comparison about apples to peaches. The RPI2040 is JUST the chip whereas the ESP32 come with tons of peripherals for your liking. From Wifi/Bluetooth Antenna, LI Battery Controller, Ethernet whatever, Display or Camera Connector - You choose. And then we have a multitude of even CPU choices and when running on a coin cell it makes a difference powering a second, unnecessary core or even wifi.…

Is there a non-Chinese equivalent of ESP that compares in terms of module integration re: Wifi et al? (but perhaps not cost)

Non Chinese as in not made in China? Pretty hard I believe. As for near equivalent, I recall about the old (and now possibly hard to find) WiFiMCU modules and the W80x MCUs by Winnermicro.

http://wifimcu.com/

https://github.com/SmartArduino/WiFiMCU

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003456975478.html

Re: I like the RP2040

#292

Post by SeanCline »

Johanx64 wrote: post #268
jayyhu wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The STM32 F0/G0/C0 lines come to mind. More I/O, more peripherals and built-in flash. For hobbyist levels, buying 1-10 pcs they are comparable in price to an RP2040 + SPI flash. However at volume pricing, the STM32 MCU's can be cheaper than just the RP2040 itself. I do think Raspberry Pi needs to figure out volume pricing if they want to be competitive for anything that's not just hobbyists.

rp2040 is 64cents @ 1000qty, thats a good price, compatible winbond 16mbit flash is 12cents. You need to go up way above a dollar to get comparable specs, given the unique nature of rp2040, two cores with fairly high clock, 264kb sram, pio. The only thing i dont like about rp2040 is the package, not hobbyist home soldering friendly for custom board designs.

  > not hobbyist home soldering friendly for custom board designs
I assume by home soldering friendly, you mean too small. I'll make a case for why this isn't a bad thing...

If it's difficult to solder a QFN package, then it will be equally difficult to solder the passives and flash it requires. Its price, availability, and good documentation make up for the package by creating an ecosystem of cheap boards hobbyists can use instead.

For example, I designed a keyboard around the Solder Party RP2040 Stamp (https://www.solder.party/docs/rp2040-stamp/). It integrated all the difficult components in a package that fit between the arrow keys and delete key.

Re: I like the RP2040

#293

Post by shadowpho »

15155 wrote: post #277
antirez wrote: post #15

I switched from ESP32 to the RP2040 because it's a much more reliable and documented device. My only concern right now with the RP2040 is that there are many ESP32 models with SPIRAM but it's not so simple to find a SPIRAM equipped RP2040 board. To be honest, given that the C development environment of the RP2040 is so good, you can make good use of the memory, but when one wants to develop a large MicroPython projec…

The RP2040 only has one QSPI port. JLC will assemble a RP2040 board for you for <$3/pc at quantities of 5.

I think it’ll be more expensive. When I was looking at jlc it seemed to be $100/10 was starting point if you want assembly

Re: I like the RP2040

#294

Post by topspin »

written-beyond wrote: post #216
topspin wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That bit of snark is about the ESP32 brigade that plagues every project or story that involves any non-ESP32 MCU, including this one. Yesterday I watched a long live video by the engineer of a open source engine management system, and he too had to deal with the ESP32 brigade in live chat. He has entirely reasonable technical justifications for his choices, and his explanation had about as much impact with the ESP32…

Look my comment was just a place holder for that brigade, I was just trying to keep it isolated to this comment so it doesn't plague the rest of the article. I genuinely find other MCUs very interesting and love reading about them and exploring them. However I do this Espressif has earned the fans and following they have. I've had the liberty of working with older platforms like the PIC32, and while I agree that ever…

> keep it isolated to this comment

Thoughtful, I suppose. Entirely futile, however, as you can see.

Re: I like the RP2040

#295

Post by MartijnBraam »

shadowpho wrote: post #293
15155 wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The RP2040 only has one QSPI port. JLC will assemble a RP2040 board for you for <$3/pc at quantities of 5.

I think it’ll be more expensive. When I was looking at jlc it seemed to be $100/10 was starting point if you want assembly

It all depends on how you select the parts. I've ordered a set of 5 boards for $12 total including shipping and assembly.

Re: I like the RP2040

#296

Post by 15155 »

shadowpho wrote: post #293
15155 wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The RP2040 only has one QSPI port. JLC will assemble a RP2040 board for you for <$3/pc at quantities of 5.

I think it’ll be more expensive. When I was looking at jlc it seemed to be $100/10 was starting point if you want assembly

You need to carefully select JLC basic parts. QSPI, XOSC, etc. can all be had without paying fees. I've ordered 5+ boards with RP2040s that have come out to "cheaper than Pico" prices.

Re: I like the RP2040

#297

Post by codebje »

Johanx64 wrote: post #268
jayyhu wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The STM32 F0/G0/C0 lines come to mind. More I/O, more peripherals and built-in flash. For hobbyist levels, buying 1-10 pcs they are comparable in price to an RP2040 + SPI flash. However at volume pricing, the STM32 MCU's can be cheaper than just the RP2040 itself. I do think Raspberry Pi needs to figure out volume pricing if they want to be competitive for anything that's not just hobbyists.

rp2040 is 64cents @ 1000qty, thats a good price, compatible winbond 16mbit flash is 12cents. You need to go up way above a dollar to get comparable specs, given the unique nature of rp2040, two cores with fairly high clock, 264kb sram, pio. The only thing i dont like about rp2040 is the package, not hobbyist home soldering friendly for custom board designs.

> The only thing i dont like about rp2040 is the package, not hobbyist home soldering friendly for custom board designs.

- Use home SMT reflow solutions like toaster ovens or hot sand in frying pans; or

- As the other reply suggested, use 'breakout boards' to turn the RP2040 into a through hole part; or

- Use SMT assembly services, which are getting cheaper all the time

It's not just a problem with the rp2040 - loads of modern parts have very fine pitches and/or hidden pads, gotta find a way to work with them or stick to aging out, larger parts and miss out on things like PIO.

Re: I like the RP2040

#298

Post by jcalvinowens »

jcalvinowens wrote: post #288
riskable wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to have the same beliefs but the flexibility of being able to use just about any pin for any purpose really sold me on the RP2040. When I decide to add a new feature to my boards I don't have to spend an hour examining the minutiae of the data sheet to see if I can use a given pin for SPI (oops: no, I can't because I enabled alternate function 3...). It saves a TON of track routing time and simplifies boards c…

I'm speaking from experience, I built two boards with the rp2040 before I decided to stop using it. The pin flexibility is nice, I agree with you there. But I spend more time dealing with the flash chip than that saves me. I don't want more capability. An STM32 M3 has far far more processing throughput than I need for 99.9% of what I do. I want the smaller thing, even if it isn't cheaper. It is sufficient. I love stm…

I forgot another win for the STM32: no crystal.

Re: I like the RP2040

#299

Post by reassembled »

mardifoufs wrote: post #243
antirez wrote: post #15

I switched from ESP32 to the RP2040 because it's a much more reliable and documented device. My only concern right now with the RP2040 is that there are many ESP32 models with SPIRAM but it's not so simple to find a SPIRAM equipped RP2040 board. To be honest, given that the C development environment of the RP2040 is so good, you can make good use of the memory, but when one wants to develop a large MicroPython projec…

Did you use esp-idf? Or the Arduino libs?

You can use Arduino libs via ESP-IDF. The IDF environment comes with a lot of libraries on its own but it is a development environment first and foremost. The design of IDF is very open and easy to understand throughout the stack. It is very easy to integrate external libraries via CMake as well.

Re: I like the RP2040

#300

Post by HyulianGrader »

g15jv2dp wrote: post #231
HyulianGrader wrote: post #12

nit: There are 6 different espressif microcontrollers in that table, not "dozens". Espressif also went many years with only the ESP8266, then many years more after introducing the ESP32 before this recent binge of releasing a new series every time they blink. ESP-IDF is really suffering for it, so I hope Raspberry avoid this fate or at least find a better way to support them all.

How is ESP-IDF "suffering for it"?

Complexity. It's now playing catch up trying to support all of these different chips with all of these different peripherals, capabilities, and errata in quick succession.

As a developer, it's much more difficult to navigate when there are 8 files with the same name, 5 registers with the same name defined in different files, etc. A lot of code is heavily punctuated by ifdefs to selectively include and exclude lines for different targets, making it more difficult to follow. Intellisense struggles, no matter how well it's configured.

I could deal with all that but it's the runtime cost that is the worst. ESP-IDF is constantly getting bigger and slower. All of these abstractions, structs half-full of pointers being handed about at runtime, dead code being linked in for features the chip doesn't even support, it all has a cost.

This is even worse in binary blobs where conditional compilation is more difficult to do. I'm not convinced they're even trying though. A single commit that only mentioned WiFi 6 changes increased my binary size by over 10kB. On a chip that doesn't support WiFi 6.

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