Apple must open iPadOS to sideloading within 6 months, EU says • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple must open iPadOS to sideloading within 6 months, EU says

#291

Post by pquki4 » Tue, Apr 30, 2024, 12:47 PM UTC

niutech wrote: post #224

DCKing wrote: post #67

The iPad App Store is perhaps an even more dysfunctional place than the iPhone in how much it holds hardware and use cases hostage to the manufacturer's vision. Just imagine how much more versatile the iPad Pro would be if only you could run Linux VMs on it in the moments you want to do anything remotely tinkery on an iPad. Apple's hardware since the 2021 iPad Pro (with M1) has had the ability to do this. The iPads h…

You can run Linux on iPad today, see the options: https://ipadlinux.org

While this is doable, it is far from an enjoyable experience -- many packages are not available on iSH or have issues, for example. Most people are not going to replace their laptop with these two apps.

Re: Apple must open iPadOS to sideloading within 6 months, EU says

#292

Post by richrichardsson » Tue, Apr 30, 2024, 12:57 PM UTC

latexr wrote: post #279

rickdeckard wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it's simply more lucrative to keep selling both devices to the same target group, than try to solve the users' problem with a single device. Everything in Apple is designed to silo off the two product groups. An "iPad with MacOS" would just shift revenue from the MacOS division to the iPad division, losing a MacOS customer and probably NOT gaining a iPad customer (as he would have purchased an iPad anyway).…

By that logic, the iPhone wouldn’t have been able to play music as soon as it launched. Yet that was part of the whole pitch: “an iPod, a phone, and an internet communicator”.

Not so sure.

From mid-to-late 90s onwards a mobile phone was basically an essential item.

I was never tempted to buy an iPod, but combine the phone and iPod and give me internet access to boot... sold.

Re: Apple must open iPadOS to sideloading within 6 months, EU says

#293

Post by troupo » Tue, Apr 30, 2024, 1:07 PM UTC

shuckles wrote: post #189

flumpcakes wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The iPad was heavily marketed as a computer replacement so definitely is supposed to be "general purpose" device. Many people I know don't use a laptop or desktop at all, and just use their iPad.

iPad marketing has historically focused on how it's _not_ a computer, so if people bought the marketing that is an implicit indication that they weren't looking for a general purpose computer.

Here's iPad marketing: https://www.apple.com/ipad/why-ipad/

--- start quote ---

Yes, it does that. And then some.

iPad is so versatile, it’s more than up to any task. Whether you’re working on a project, expressing your creativity, or playing an immersive game, iPad is a fun and powerful way to get it done. Here are just a few of the countless things you can do with iPad.

--- end quote ---

And it has historically been "it's like a computer, but in tablet form".

Here's how Apple introduced iPad Pro just a year after it introduced iPad as a product: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2015/09/09Apple-Introduces-iP...

--- start quote ---

The new iPad Pro will enable a new generation of advanced apps for everything from productivity, design, illustration, engineering and medical, to education, gaming and entertainment.

The innovative Apple Pencil and new Smart Keyboard enable users ... making iPad Pro ideal for everything from professional productivity to advanced 3D design.

--- end quote ---

Or in 2016 here's Apple announcing how it will transform businesses with Deloitte: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2016/09/apple-and-deloitte-te...

--- start quote ---

Deloitte is creating a first-of-its-kind Apple practice with over 5,000 strategic advisors who are solely focused on helping businesses change the way they work across their entire enterprise, from customer-facing functions such as retail, field services and recruiting, to R&D, inventory management and back-office systems.

The new offering will help customers discover the highest impact possibilities within their industries and quickly develop custom solutions through rapid prototyping.

--- end quote ---

etc. etc.

Re: Apple must open iPadOS to sideloading within 6 months, EU says

#294

Post by jaystraw » Tue, Apr 30, 2024, 1:28 PM UTC

anileated wrote: post #80

Do I think side-loading and alt app stores would make iPads and iPhones more versatile devices? Yes. Do I believe indie devs will be worse off? Unfortunately, also yes. If you are a solo app developer, you will now have to keep presence on all app stores out there, since if you don’t publish on one then a copycat will. Every store would have its own review processes, fee structures, billing and tax procedures. Since…

i can't speak for app stores, but my band, based out of Anchorage, Alaska, makes good money from streams. we are completely independent. we don't use cdbaby, but distrokid who charges a flat fee to upload, and publishes to all available platforms. that flat fee also covers publishing to new platforms as they become available to distrokid.

i underdstand your worries but at least in my main line of work, i've seen a lot of innovation over the 20 years i've been doing this. fret not. i guess that's a guitar pun.

Re: Apple must open iPadOS to sideloading within 6 months, EU says

#295

Post by rickdeckard » Tue, Apr 30, 2024, 1:29 PM UTC

latexr wrote: post #279

rickdeckard wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it's simply more lucrative to keep selling both devices to the same target group, than try to solve the users' problem with a single device. Everything in Apple is designed to silo off the two product groups. An "iPad with MacOS" would just shift revenue from the MacOS division to the iPad division, losing a MacOS customer and probably NOT gaining a iPad customer (as he would have purchased an iPad anyway).…

By that logic, the iPhone wouldn’t have been able to play music as soon as it launched. Yet that was part of the whole pitch: “an iPod, a phone, and an internet communicator”.

The iPod is a product of the pre-iPhone times. Apple used its dominance in Music players to enter the cellphone space.

The iPhone was an iPod combined with an iTunes store, allowing the user to buy content without being in front of a PC, and only buy from Apple.

It was an iPod and a Browser that could be sold in huge volumes via a carrier.

Ah yeah. And a Phone.

Re: Apple must open iPadOS to sideloading within 6 months, EU says

#296

Post by neverokay » Tue, Apr 30, 2024, 1:30 PM UTC

realusername wrote: post #256

tgv wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course there will be more backdoored, hacked spyware outside the appstore, because there's no oversight for side-loading. And if some game dev says "hey, you can get rid of the ads by side loading" then quite a lot of people are going to do that. They don't understand security.

I don't see how appstore reviews (because that's the only thing that changes compared to an install from a website) can prevent much spyware to happen. Only the most obvious stuff could possibly get caught in these processes. Having passed the appstore review myself, they are nothing but very shallow (except for anything touching their revenue streams of course) Saying that the phone will be full of malware with a no…

You may be not be aware of or simply have forgotten ever visiting a friend or family’s computer where all kinds of AskJeeeves toolbars are installed from god knows where. Many people I know managed to have entire pop ups installed soon as they start their computer.

I’m not worried about you or me. The EU is just wrong on this one. They are making the worst assumption about the average user, and that’s that they are tech savvy.

Re: Apple must open iPadOS to sideloading within 6 months, EU says

#297

Post by rickdeckard » Tue, Apr 30, 2024, 1:31 PM UTC

latexr wrote: post #279

rickdeckard wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it's simply more lucrative to keep selling both devices to the same target group, than try to solve the users' problem with a single device. Everything in Apple is designed to silo off the two product groups. An "iPad with MacOS" would just shift revenue from the MacOS division to the iPad division, losing a MacOS customer and probably NOT gaining a iPad customer (as he would have purchased an iPad anyway).…

By that logic, the iPhone wouldn’t have been able to play music as soon as it launched. Yet that was part of the whole pitch: “an iPod, a phone, and an internet communicator”.

And then the iPod died.

Re: Apple must open iPadOS to sideloading within 6 months, EU says

#298

Post by syene » Tue, Apr 30, 2024, 1:34 PM UTC

Blackstrat wrote: post #289

There's no reason for this change. Experience has shown that when governments dictate technology changes, in the end, none of us are better off. There are alternatives to the IPad. Buy one of them. IOS/IPadOS are going to become less stable and less secure with forced access. Too much government everywhere.

iPhone and iPads are marketed as general computing devices and are used by people as general computing devices. Being able to run whatever software you want is a cornerstone of computers that some computer companies have tried to prohibit for their own profit margins, and branded it as a security feature. The industry hasn’t been able to right this in over a decade, so I support governments intervening.

Re: Apple must open iPadOS to sideloading within 6 months, EU says

#299

Post by realusername » Tue, Apr 30, 2024, 1:38 PM UTC

neverokay wrote: post #296

realusername wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how appstore reviews (because that's the only thing that changes compared to an install from a website) can prevent much spyware to happen. Only the most obvious stuff could possibly get caught in these processes. Having passed the appstore review myself, they are nothing but very shallow (except for anything touching their revenue streams of course) Saying that the phone will be full of malware with a no…

You may be not be aware of or simply have forgotten ever visiting a friend or family’s computer where all kinds of AskJeeeves toolbars are installed from god knows where. Many people I know managed to have entire pop ups installed soon as they start their computer. I’m not worried about you or me . The EU is just wrong on this one. They are making the worst assumption about the average user, and that’s that they are…

> You may be not be aware of or simply have forgotten ever visiting a friend or family’s computer where all kinds of AskJeeeves toolbars are installed from god knows where.

And how are you going to make those OS-wide popups with the iOS sandbox exactly?

Be sure that if apps could make it, they already would, appstore reviews or not.

There's some very strange communication on Apple side saying simultaneously that their phone is the most secure thing in the world on their website and pretending to the EU that it's Swiss cheese and that manual reviews kind of save the day instead. They have to pick one.

> I’m not worried about you or me. The EU is just wrong on this one.

No, I believe the EU is right here but very late to the party and not even pushing far enough if I'm being honest. There's some talks need to allow OS reinstalls and I don't see any yet.

Re: Apple must open iPadOS to sideloading within 6 months, EU says

#300

Post by freeopinion » Tue, Apr 30, 2024, 1:44 PM UTC

cromka wrote: post #206

f6v wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think versatile devices are possible. I love iPad Pro for what it is. I tried Surface Pro and it was a much inferior tablet experience, even though the device is more “versatile”. I just doing think that you can get an excellent tablet by trying to be a laptop at the same time.

It’s a screen. Add a regular Bluetooth keyboard mouse and you have a PC. There’s no compromise here from hardware perspective, it’s just software that’s in the way.

Remember the size of the original iPhone? I have long wondered why nobody makes a universal compute brick in such a form factor without a screen. Then sell 5" or 7" or 10" or 27" screens with and without touch that connect to the little brick.

I can buy a 15" screen right now for under $75. It's the ultimate super-thin laptop if you remove the compute and keep the brick in your purse/backpack/holster.

For extra points, connect two compute bricks for more muscle.