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Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

theguardian.com

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Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#291

Post by cmrdporcupine »

Detroiterr wrote: post #207
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Jeff Mills was a Skinny Puppy fan, and you can hear it Totally. I have somewhere in my pile of neglected vinyl one of the "Final Cut" releases, which was a straight-up wax-trax style EBM/industrial thing which Jeff Mills was involved in. Late 80s/early-90s. > The UK was the first to wake up to US techno, long before the US did Arguably, the US never really did. Most people here in North America remain clueless to w…

> Detroit itself is a fairly small city, population wise Detroit's population has decreased. It was the 5th or 6th largest city in the US around 1980, iirc. > Detroit techno producers and DJs spent most of their time touring in Europe (where they could get paid), not here in North America. > The Detroit Electronic Music Festival events were kind of a rare acknowledgement by a larger audience (I went to the first two…

> One of my favorite memories was Derrick May finally taking the stage

That was a great moment. I recall the Stacey Pullen set being great, too. I'd seen both those people before and not been impressed, actually. But at DEMF it was amazing.

Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#292

Post by ehnto »

sseagull wrote: post #145
bnralt wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's the case for a lot of "normies", but it really feels insulting to the electronic music fans in general. Unlike say rock nobody's gonna ask you to know every band in existence and every album they put out decades ago, but you should be able to distinguish between major electronic music genres like house, techno, drum and bass, trance, hardstyle and what not. Plenty of people are able to enjoy music without ge…

I find the nomenclature discussion very interesting. I wonder why "modern" music has so many genres? I listen to a lot of "classical". People will generally dump centuries of music into that label, or into the slightly better "baroque/classical/romantic/etc" bins. But composers often have phases where their music can change considerably. Even with in a work (say, Dvorak's 9th symphony) individual movements can be ver…

If I am being charitable it is probably partly to do with how much music is coming out, it is basically impossible to listen to all new DnB releases so it helps that they get categorized so you can find what you want.

If I am being uncharitable, some people just want to differentiate to feel special. Elitism in genres is nothing new either, rock and jazz have their own blend of genre snobbery and I am sure even Classical had people trying to look down on others from adjascent, equal height high horses.

Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#293

Post by ehnto »

_kb wrote: post #155
ehnto wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this specifically techno/underground clubs you mean? My pokey city in Aus has like a dozen "EDM" clubs that spin a decent breadth of techno to house to dnb etc. Perhaps I should count myself lucky?

I'm unsure which "pokey city in Aus" you're referring to as that arguably covers all of our capitals. You really can't compare any Australian club to Berlin's institutions, and that a good thing! Music, events, and culture in general should be diverse. It would be a fucking bleak future if the world converges on the single right way to party, detach, relax, or feel.

That's fair enough. I guess I am just surprised that there would be only two clubs. Most clubs here don't specialize in one genre except the "core edm" clubs but that might be an artifact of our distance from everything.

Rather than popping over a city to enjoy a different scene, we try to sprinkle a bit of all scenes into the one city.

I am sure we don't hold a candle to the scene in Berlin, but I think my takeaway is that I'll be thankful we get a sampler of many scenes here.

Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#294

Post by vidarh »

LAC-Tech wrote: post #262
vidarh wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of us are no longer in school, and lots of people forget that as soon as they learn it, but it's also entirely irrelevant to the question of how the term was used . "Europe" is very commonly used as a synonym for the EEA or even just EU many places today, no matter how incorrect that is.

and lots of people forget that as soon as they learn it Great, then we don't need to hear from these people. They don't need opinions or view points about things they were never intersted in, never learned about, and couldn't be bothered to remember. "Europe" is very commonly used as a synonym for the EEA or even just EU many places today, no matter how incorrect that is. The term was very specifically "Continental E…

It's not up to you to decide whether or not people express opinions about whatever they please, and frankly that sentiment comes across as deeply arrogant and unpleasant. if that's the tack you want to take you can continue this discussion with someone else.

> The term was very specifically "Continental Europe".

And "continental" in Europe very often is just used as a "but not the UK" modifier.

You can argue about the correct meaning all you want, but it is entirely irrelevant to whether or not that is how it was actually being used.

Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#295

Post by kwere »

downWidOutaFite wrote: post #224
wheels wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tourism definitely wasn't a major drag on the techno scene. There's always been the tourist clubs and the clubs that were more underground. Berliners usually don't go to Berlin's best known clubs. (Who the hell goes to Watergate or Tresor? Old joke was that Tresor was the biggest club in Dresden.) I think the biggest drag is actually rent prices. When I got to Berlin 20 years ago you could get a room in a shared flat…

This sounds similar to what's happened in Oakland, CA. When I moved here 25 years ago there was a huge underground music and arts scene in West Oakland warehouses but the last 10 years of gentrification has wiped it out. After the pandemic (and constant right-wing propaganda) Oakland is now once again deemed a wasteland and businesses are fleeing, but I've started noticing a new youth culture is slowly starting to em…

>culture is not valued in capitalism because it has no landlord

intellectual property is the way to monetize intangible culture

Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#296

Post by ecoquant »

sabellito wrote: post #8
larodi wrote: post #4

According to many people, including record shop owners I’ve talked to, Berlin’s scene is actually not so underground and not so cool anymore as a result of tourism and immigration. Rich people nowadays buy property in Potsdam, and the scene is moving towards Leipzig. In a more general sense the old rave cities are making way, and have been making way, to other cities. A movement spanning more than 20 years now, thank…

Heard exactly that, including the Leipzig part, every year for the 5 years I lived there 10 years ago. Berlin is the biggest city in continental Europe, there's a lot of everything and there'll always be hidden little nooks.

It seems a constant that raves were better 10 years ago before everything became commercialized.

"It use to be about the music"

I remember hearing this 25 years ago.

Of course, what happens is that you get people who have been going to these things for 10 years and the novelty has worn off along with being 10 years older.

Most fun activities are better when you are 10 years younger with no expectations.

Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#297

Post by menor »

dewey wrote: post #97
huseyinkeles wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I enjoyed Zur Klappe when I visited Berlin pre-pandemic times. It's literally underground and used to be a public toilet. And it's very close to the famous Mustafa's Gemuse Kebab, so you can try that afterwards.

> And it's very close to the famous Mustafa's Gemuse Kebab, so you can try that afterwards. I'd skip the tourist queue and go to any other random places you find on the way instead.

Agree, Mustafa's queue is not worth it

Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#298

Post by LAC-Tech »

vidarh wrote: post #294
LAC-Tech wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and lots of people forget that as soon as they learn it Great, then we don't need to hear from these people. They don't need opinions or view points about things they were never intersted in, never learned about, and couldn't be bothered to remember. "Europe" is very commonly used as a synonym for the EEA or even just EU many places today, no matter how incorrect that is. The term was very specifically "Continental E…

It's not up to you to decide whether or not people express opinions about whatever they please, and frankly that sentiment comes across as deeply arrogant and unpleasant. if that's the tack you want to take you can continue this discussion with someone else. > The term was very specifically "Continental Europe". And "continental" in Europe very often is just used as a "but not the UK" modifier. You can argue about th…

frankly that sentiment comes across as deeply arrogant and unpleasant

I don't care what you think about me.

Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#299

Post by wolverine876 »

samatman wrote: post #266
jackcosgrove wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where there is affordable housing, there be musicians doing brave new things instead of worrying about rent and rapping rants about gentrification. So I am not a techno aficionado, and I'm curious what the state of Detroit techno is now. It seems like it should be more notable (maybe it is and I'm not in the scene to know) given the history and cost of living. I regret the US turning away from house and techno, com…

> I'm curious what the state of Detroit techno is now Still got it, never lost it.

So school us a bit, rep your city since UNESCO won't. Where does one go in Detroit and what will they find?

Are people there talking about this?

Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#300

Post by wolverine876 »

scns wrote: post #252
easyThrowaway wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dunno. Sven & friends at Berghain never looked particularly lefty. Tbh They always gave me a a strong...erhh... "Aryan" vibe if you know what I mean.

Sven is gay.

People's sexual preferences don't determine their political or ideological preferences.
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