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Heinz’s sustainable ketchup cap

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Re: Heinz’s sustainable ketchup cap

#291

Post by s1artibartfast »

drewdevault wrote: post #263
jrochkind1 wrote: post #223

> Currently only about 3% of PP products are being recycled in the United States, but it is becoming more widely accepted So now the relatively small amount of mass in the cap is just as recyclable as the bottle itself -- neither are actually going to be recycled. There's nothing to see here but marketing. And a an interesting engineering puzzle solved, sure. "How Big Oil Misled The Public Into Believing Plastic Woul…

The only genuine path to sustainability is reduction. There is no sustainable way to have disposable single-use packaging that you throw away when the bottle empties. Glass bottles with a deposit to incentivize bottle return, following which they are washed and refilled with new product (ideally locally, with fresh ketchup arriving to local distribution centers in bulk), is a much more reasonable approach.

I don't think deposits or a meaningful motivation for return in the US. More of a grift or sin tax than anything else.

I wonder if even 1% of the charge is paid out to consumers

Re: Heinz’s sustainable ketchup cap

#292

Post by ArchOversight »

audunw wrote: post #260
jrochkind1 wrote: post #223

> Currently only about 3% of PP products are being recycled in the United States, but it is becoming more widely accepted So now the relatively small amount of mass in the cap is just as recyclable as the bottle itself -- neither are actually going to be recycled. There's nothing to see here but marketing. And a an interesting engineering puzzle solved, sure. "How Big Oil Misled The Public Into Believing Plastic Woul…

But PP is one of the plastics that CAN be recycled, and IS recycled, often at a much higher rate than in the US. One of the barriers of effectively recycling PP is the mixing of materials in packaging. I know some brands in my country switched labels to make sure the bottle was uniform and recognises by recycling machines as PP. So what Heinz is doing here is actually meaningful. The other problem USA has is poor edu…

In my local jurisdiction (a part of the US) the recycling bin is only allowed to be filled with cardboard and metal cans.

Glass/plastic/contaminated cardboard and others are all required to go into the trash.

Which makes no sense, glass is infinitely recyclable, yet it is not, it is instead brought to the local dump.

Now here's the kicker, I was talking the to the trash collection people around the winter break (tip your trash collection folks well, and they will make all kinds of stuff disappear) and they mentioned to me that because there is no demand for cardboard/metal recycling while they load it into two different trucks, they end up at the exact same dump.

This was confirmed not too much later when I went with my contractor to the dump to get rid of a ton of construction material, where I saw two dump trucks right next to each other, one filled with trash and one with recyclables.

So very little actually gets recycled in the United States. Most of it ends up in giant piles, buried...

Re: Heinz’s sustainable ketchup cap

#293

Post by tpmoney »

Hizonner wrote: post #210
infecto wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its cheaper and easier to ensure sanitary products. We love to be romantic about glass but I don't think as easy of a calculation for the total environmental use. Glass is heavier and more expensive to transport. Glass is harder to shape into sizes that make for efficient transportation, for example Costco square milk jugs. I love to use glass when I can but I don't know if using this glass jar which may not even be…

You know what's more efficient than glass? Ship the product in bulk and dispense it into the customer's container. And a lot of products could actually be formulated on site, because most of, say, your cleaning aisle is various combinations of relatively few standard components. The biggest barrier there are certain people's desires to control information and to create the perception of distinctions that don't exist.

While I’m a big fan of being able to buy quantities in bulk, it’s worth remembering we did just go through a 3 year period that should illuminate why “every Tom, Dick and Harry brings their likely barely washed if not fully contaminated packaging from home and uses the community ladle to scoop out of the community bin into their bag” might not be the best default. At least with factory -> sanitized individual wrappings you can spend a lot of effort stopping contamination at specific points in the supply chain. Bulk -> consumer reused packaging is much much harder to prevent contamination.

Re: Heinz’s sustainable ketchup cap

#294

Post by lobochrome »

RandallBrown wrote: post #284
audunw wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But PP is one of the plastics that CAN be recycled, and IS recycled, often at a much higher rate than in the US. One of the barriers of effectively recycling PP is the mixing of materials in packaging. I know some brands in my country switched labels to make sure the bottle was uniform and recognises by recycling machines as PP. So what Heinz is doing here is actually meaningful. The other problem USA has is poor edu…

Bottle and can recycling machines are common in the United States as well, although only in places with bottle/can deposits. Many recycling centers in the US use single stream recycling where the waste is separated into separate streams at the recycling plant. I'm sure this only works well for glass and metal items but I don't see any reason that it eventually wouldn't get better.

The first principle hack here is to put the waste stream separation burden on the consumer.

Here in Japan we are sorting and packaging our trash all at home and putting it out to be collected individually.

There is

- cardboard (to be cut flat and bundled with string)

- unlaminated and clean paper (to be bundled with string or collected in a paper bag)

- PET (clean, no bottle cap, label removed)

- Milk cartons above 1l (cut open, flattened and tied up with string)

- glass

- cans

- aluminum

- other plastics (if clean)

- other metals

Of the top of my head ;)

What’s left over is classified as Burnable or non-Burnable and collected separately.

Collection happens at central points shared by a few houses. So if you fuck it up, your neighbors will know.

Collection happens through individual small trucks and the guy check the items and sort them directly into larger bins. If you made a mistake they will label it and leave it behind.

I spend about an hour sorting trash each week. Given the opportunity cost, I really consider what to buy, order online etc.

Re: Heinz’s sustainable ketchup cap

#295

Post by s0rce »

A glass bottle/jar with a metal cap is far superior if the goal was sustainability. Maybe the user experience isn't as desirable but more plastic that isn't going to get recycled doesn't' seem great...

Re: Heinz’s sustainable ketchup cap

#296

Post by Symbiote »

coryfklein wrote: post #230
Symbiote wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Copenhagen recycles 70% of collected plastic, with the rest incinerated (used for heating homes, I think). Almost all plastic packaging is collected, including wrappers and trays. https://affald.kk.dk/affaldsfraktion/saadan-sorterer-du-plas... (in Danish)

Does "recyling" include paying Chinese "recyclers" to take it? Because if so then I don't think it's actually being recycled. What, pray tell, are they doing with this low-grade recycled plastic? Putting park benches out into the environment that will degrade faster, distributing microplastics everywhere? Or are they investing a ton of time and energy to recycle the plastic into higher use (than park benches), which…

All your snarky points are answered in the linked site.

Re: Heinz’s sustainable ketchup cap

#297

Post by justusthane »

throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #173
whywhywhywhy wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and provides a lot of surface area and crevices for mould to grow Isn't the whole reason Heinz ketchup is self stable is because it's too high in acidity for mold to even grow

It's probably from added stabilizers and not acidity. Molds do well with acidic food, as well as sugary and salty

Molds and bacteria do not do well with acidic foods — that’s why you can leave an opened jar of salsa in the fridge for, like, a year. It’s also why it’s safe to can tomato sauce in a hot water bath, versus other less acidic food which need to be pressure canned.

Re: Heinz’s sustainable ketchup cap

#299

Post by RandallBrown »

pfdietz wrote: post #145
radicaldreamer wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recyclable is a scam perpetuated by the plastic industry. You should be using reusable glass which is expensive to replace but cheap to refill.

I view recycling schemes for plastics as a way to make burning the stuff more convenient. Which is not necessarily a bad thing. After fossil fuels are done, the reduced carbon in the waste stream (including plastics, but also cellulosic materials) will become more valuable as feedstock for various chemical processes. Garbage refining will be a thing. It will be an aggressive chemical endeavor, more akin to petroleum…

There's a book I read as a kid that takes place in the sort of near future after we've run out of oil.

The only people that have plastic in this future society are extremely wealthy and poor people "mine" old landfills looking for plastic to sell.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ear,_the_Eye_and_the_Arm

Re: Heinz’s sustainable ketchup cap

#300

Post by [deleted] »

londons_explore wrote: post #43

It does mean this cap is practically impossible to clean, and provides a lot of surface area and crevices for mould to grow or plasticizers to leak from the packaging into the product. All engineering is a tradeoff, and I would be interested to see how those factors were considered when doing the redesign.

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