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Should toggle button show its current state or the state to which it'll change? (2010)

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Re: Should toggle button show its current state or the state to which it'll change? (2010)

#291

Post by richwater »

lmz wrote: post #287
hypercube33 wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this the company that makes VSCode as well though? Why not pillage some of that code for ... code in messages?

Keep your bloated webtech code editor out of my bloated webtech chat client!

I'd say VSCode is one of the best optimized/built Electron apps out there. The team cares a lot about performance and weird edge cases.

I vastly prefer using Vscode if I need some IDE-esque features over something like IntelliJ these days, even if the latter is more "powerful" in terms of features.

Re: Should toggle button show its current state or the state to which it'll change? (2010)

#292

Post by bqmjjx0kac »

thr33 wrote: post #254
bqmjjx0kac wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mine has this as well! I like the UX, but it's also kind of crazy that they didn't think about red/green colorblind users.

colorblindness would have no effect on this ux pattern

Okay

Re: Should toggle button show its current state or the state to which it'll change? (2010)

#293

Post by dingnuts »

kortex wrote: post #133
derekp7 wrote: post #6

This has been really frustrating to me lately with Microsoft Teams. If I'm in their app, the mute button is a microphone with a line through it (if mute is activated, i.e. if the mic is off). And the icon changes to a microphone without the slash over it to indicate that you are no longer muted. Makes sense. But if I join using the phone app on my phone, the same microphone with a line through it (that means you are…

I think part of this confusion stems from the "default mic on" mindset, where "mic active" is assumed to be the default, and mute is a deviation from that state. We can trace this pattern back to the UI of phone conference systems, back through analog phones, back to the time of a literal wire connection between parties. Many/most audio mixers (in the context of live music and recording) and their digital brethren us…

>Many/most audio mixers (in the context of live music and recording) and their digital brethren use the same pattern - a "Mute" button which lights red to indicate that channel is silenced. But a few have an ON button above the fader which lights to indicate the channel is active.

Hm, this is the opposite of what I've seen. On recording interfaces I'm used to having a button that lights up red when an input is armed -- unmuted and ready to record. In fact I have a digital 8-track sitting next to me that works this way.

Traditional recording studios would follow this pattern too -- the ON AIR sign is lit when the mic is hot, and off when the room is "muted"

Video conference software could certainly stand to adopt this model instead of default unmuted -- I certainly spend more time in meeting muted than with a hot mic.

Re: Should toggle button show its current state or the state to which it'll change? (2010)

#294

Post by pavel_lishin »

deathanatos wrote: post #279
pavel_lishin wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Discord is worse. Their buttons for mute-microphone and turn-off-camera are inverses of each other.

They are? Whether the icon has a slash or not: Device is currently ->| On | Off ------+-----------+------ Camera| unslashed | slashed Mic| unslashed | slashed The camera button is on a different row, and gets a background rect that the mic button doesn't, and turns green when on (vs. the red for the mic when off) … but I think that's sort of a mapping to the default Discord state & showing things that are "against no…

I stand corrected after confirming this for myself, but I swear it used to be the opposite.

Re: Should toggle button show its current state or the state to which it'll change? (2010)

#295

Post by pavel_lishin »

FridgeSeal wrote: post #198
pavel_lishin wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Discord is worse. Their buttons for mute-microphone and turn-off-camera are inverses of each other.

I hadn’t noticed- or struggled with this, but I guess it makes sense. The channels are primarily audio and stream focused, with users video being second in priority (makes sense when you consider its initial target audience). So by default mic is active, video is not. When you mute yourself, you get a “muted” indicator next to your name anyway.

Those defaults make sense, but the UI used to literally have the indicators swapped. (They seem to have fixed this since last time I used it.)

Re: Should toggle button show its current state or the state to which it'll change? (2010)

#297

Post by wolverine876 »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #132
wolverine876 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you don't actually need to know the etymology of a word or symbol to use or understand it. Etymology, etc. helps to understand what other people mean and have meant by the word, and what others will understand.

No, it doesn't?

Well, in this case, if one person says it does, and another doesn't see that it does, shouldn't the latter conclude they are likely missing something?

If I say 'this truck hauls 2 tons up Mount Rainier' and evidently I do that, and you don't think so, wouldn't the rational conclusion be that the truck does it and you were unaware?

I and many others, for centuries, have used etymology to understand meaning and history. Don't tell me it doesn't work - I do it, just like driving that truck. You can't do everything, we all miss out on most things, but you are missing out! :)

Re: Should toggle button show its current state or the state to which it'll change? (2010)

#298

Post by xnx »

bee_rider wrote: post #55

RIP Checkbox, 1990-2009, you were perfect and unambiguous but for some reason smartphone designers hated you.

Is Jony Ive the Thomas Midgley Jr of the design world? Jony is responsible for iOS 7 which popularized low-usability flat design, as well as the circular iMac mouse and the Macbook's fragile keyboards.

Re: Should toggle button show its current state or the state to which it'll change? (2010)

#299

Post by arximboldi »

rjmunro wrote: post #45

The absolute worst example of this I have seen is the Tesla dashboard screen UI. It shows a car with labels on it, not buttons, that say "Open". That unambiguously means that the particular part is open. But that's not what it means. The labels are in fact buttons to open the parts, and you have no way of knowing.

Interesting. This is a problem with the english language, where verbs and adjectives are often the same. It would not happen in Spanish, where "Abrir" (Infinitive) is different than "Abierto" (adjective).

I guess this could be avoided by using "Do open" or "Is open". Would this sound off to a native speaker?

Re: Should toggle button show its current state or the state to which it'll change? (2010)

#300

Post by DigitallyFidget »

It should always show its current state. If a button is doubling as a status display, it needs to display current status, that's the entire point of a button doubling as displaying information.

Would you flip a breaker to the "ON" position in order to turn it off, or would you expect the breaker to display its current state of being ON/OFF?

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