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Write code for the web

mrmr.io

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Re: Write code for the web

#291

Post by FredPret »

mnvrth wrote: post #274
FredPret wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct, but HTML + JS + CSS is the standard we seem to have settled on, and having a globally accepted standard for anything is a unique and historic achievement, let alone for free, fast, and robust global distribution of Turing-complete computation and content delivery. Now we can hope that those building blocks improve over time, but the current situation is so much better than it could have been.

This is beautifully put! I hope more people are able to understand the point you're making, especially how "having a globally accepted standard for anything is a unique and historic achievement".

Thank you!

I guess I can make myself more clear - the good thing about CSS is not the way it does layouts, but that it can do layouts on almost any device.

You can come up with a better system that runs on your own machine (1 unit of effort), but then you have to convince everyone and their dog to adopt your new standard (1 billion units of effort).

Re: Write code for the web

#292

Post by ncann »

kmeisthax wrote: post #275
idle_zealot wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> except for maybe Uber, Google Drive, and games I understand Drive working better as a native app; it needs to be able to provide a virtual filesystem to the OS and do background syncing and such. But why Uber? Uber has (or maybe had) a mobile site that works fine for requesting rides and basically everything the app can do. I don't see what value Uber being a native app adds for the user. The same goes for most mob…

Uber has the same problem that Death Stranding and Resident Evil have: you can't keep shittons of data cached on-device unless you have it installed as an app and not a webpage. Uber specifically needs to support someone traveling from Sao Paulo, Brazil to Mumbai, India without needing to have more than a whisper of connectivity at their destination. The way you do that is by keeping the UI for every payment provider…

I haven't run into no-network situation with Uber ever since every airport has wifi nowadays, but in that situation with no network, how does local on-device Uber data help to book a ride?

Re: Write code for the web

#293

Post by threeseed »

aronhegedus wrote: post #64
throw156754228 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So tired of junk apps cluttering up my phone and tablet. Examples: There's a parking station near me that has an app, the library photocopier has an app. Could all be done on the web.

I also don't understand why a parking meter needs an app, it should have a QR code>web>stripe payment (or a text to pay), rather than 2 buggy apps on iPhone and Android, which require data to download

There are many reasons to have a parking app.

You can extend your parking time, find closest parking meters, download tax invoices for businesses etc.

All of these are much faster to do on a native app than a clunky mobile web site.

Re: Write code for the web

#294

Post by nerdix »

aCoreyJ wrote: post #99
maxlamb wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you meant Google's and Apple's incentives to make them (PWAs) worse...

Google is the one pushing them. Apple has the incentive to keep people on the device though because they don't have an advertising business https://fugu-tracker.web.app/

Right. Google is incentivized to push PWAs and other forms of cross-platform mobile app development (hence Flutter).

How often will the hot new app from some SV startup launch for iOS first with no Android app? Resource strapped companies that have to prioritize one platform will tend to pick iOS and that hurts Android (but is obviously good for Apple)

Re: Write code for the web

#295

Post by viktorcode »

The author confuses development for an Apple platform with using Apple's service API in development, and suggests to write for web instead. If you can use Apple Music API in web development (I don't know if you can) then you'll face exactly same issues as described, because the problem is this service's API.

Re: Write code for the web

#296

Post by mark_l_watson »

jahewson wrote: post #62
mark_l_watson wrote: post #28

I like the author's healthy attitude towards large corporations - basic modern survival skill. If I had my way, I would not have to install any apps on my iPhone or iPads but platform limitations make this a requirement. I noticed that on Safari, the X/Twitter web app is not playing videos, even after I turned off Lockdown Mode for X. Is this Apple's fault for a platform inconsistency or X trying to force users to in…

> ClojureScript + Dart Ignore people who write about finding the perfect stack. The perfect stack does not exist and it is not requisite for shipping great software that real users value. Much of web development consists of knowing the browser well, and web.dev is a great resource for that. Beyond that just go and learn React + TypeScript, the new react.dev is great. While React is not perfect it’s such a good paradi…

Thanks for the advice jahewson and mnvrth. I have developed a few SwiftUI apps, so React may be similar.

Re: Write code for the web

#297

Post by kmeisthax »

ncann wrote: post #292
kmeisthax wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uber has the same problem that Death Stranding and Resident Evil have: you can't keep shittons of data cached on-device unless you have it installed as an app and not a webpage. Uber specifically needs to support someone traveling from Sao Paulo, Brazil to Mumbai, India without needing to have more than a whisper of connectivity at their destination. The way you do that is by keeping the UI for every payment provider…

I haven't run into no-network situation with Uber ever since every airport has wifi nowadays, but in that situation with no network, how does local on-device Uber data help to book a ride?

It's not "no network", it's "minimal network". i.e. bad wifi or garbage 3G. Or you're data roaming, in which case you'd get charged out the nose if the app decided to redownload stuff.

Re: Write code for the web

#298

Post by fauigerzigerk »

BuyMyBitcoins wrote: post #59

Years ago I decided to delve into learning Swift and native iOS development. I simply could not get accustomed to using XCode. The UI/UX of XCode is atrocious in a way that I’m struggling to articulate. I found myself constantly opening and closing panels just to click on icons that weren’t intuitively grouped together. To open one panel would forcefully minimize the other. It’s like a tenth of my time was dedicated…

I agree that Xcode usability is absolutely horrible. It's also unbelievably slow and it's crashing so much it would never survive an App Store review.

But what really turned me away from making native apps for Apple platforms is the combination of bugs and lack of documentation.

SwiftUI was just not fit for purpose when I last used it a year ago. But even more mature libraries are often barely documented. It's hard to know what's obsolete.

The advantages of native apps for my work are small to begin with (from a user point for view). It's mostly about more reliable local storage.

If productivity is so much lower than making web apps it's impossible to justify the cost and the extra risk putting myself at the mercy of some oligopolist overlord.

Re: Write code for the web

#299

Post by Drew_ »

spacedcowboy wrote: post #232
gymbeaux wrote: post #226

When I think about it, it astonishes me that there are people in the world who take Apple's developer tools, and make some really beautiful and useful iOS apps. I've tried on and off since high school and have never been able to do it. I started in high school with Xcode and Objective-C, which is a very difficult language to work with (being not that far removed from C/C++). When they moved to Swift I thought "okay f…

ObjC is not “a very difficult language to work with” by any means, and Xcode is fine - it’s not the absolute best IDE out there, but having tried several, it’s ok. Honestly, having “enjoyed” decades of different systems, from the days of 8” floppies onwards, developers today are spoilt rotten, and still find things to complain about. Grumble, mumble, kids today, get off my lawn etc etc

Objective-C is the only programming language that was genuinely unreadable on first glance to me so I would definitely agree that it's difficult to work with.

Re: Write code for the web

#300

Post by lm411 »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #218
bmitc wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never understood how Apple gets away with it and even more than that gets a huge amount of love. Whereas, if Microsoft just looks at you wrong, pitchforks are out. I'm not cheerleading any company here, but it has been frustrating in my career where people absolutely refuse to touch or even consider anything Microsoft related but love their Apple computer. Apple is probably hundreds of times more agressive, mo…

It's because Apple doesn't have users, they have fanboys. Apple customers aren't there because of the quality of the product, they're there because they've been convinced that Apple is cool.

I think you mistyped the URL - this is Hacker News, not Slashdot. Let's keep the discussion intelligent and not bother with the mud slinging or other insults.

An interesting observation is that users of Apple products rarely go out of their way to insult others based on their choice of hardware / OS, while users of Android (and Windows & Linux to a lesser extent) seem to get quite needlessly enraged at the Apple users. No one is forcing Apple products on you guys, chill out.

As someone who uses iOS, Android, Windows, Linux, Mac, and FreeBSD on a daily basis, I believe all of them have their pros and cons.

On topic: Apple used to quite strongly prefer (and tell) developers to use web apps when appropriate instead of a native app. As someone that has helped many companies develop apps - the biggest complaint about not having a native app is that they won't be listed in the App Stores without one.

Many of the apps I've helped develop could be web apps, but, companies really want to see their app in the App Stores.

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