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Goodbye non-KISS appliances

willbush.dev

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Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#291

Post by Nifty3929 »

It's very fun to get angry at appliance makers - but if they actually made the appliances that we think they should, they would go broke because nobody (except a few of us) would buy them. This is how these newer "smart" appliances started taking over in the first place.

As evidence, check out some of the manufacturers that do make higher-quality dumb appliances, like Subzero and Speed Queen and notice how little consumer market share they have. Of course they are more expensive, but that's where the supply and demand curve cross. But where people like business owners WILL pay more for quality and longevity, they do have a major share of the commercial market.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#292

Post by hstan4 »

em3rgent0rdr wrote: post #254

If you want to keep it simple, don't even bother with filtered water and just drink out of the tap. It is safe in the developed world. If you are concerned about germs, which can get through the filter anyway, you should boil the water instead.

“Safe” by the EPA’s standards

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#293

Post by nytesky »

The old Kenmore was probably built by Whirlpool in a US factory. GE cafe is a rebranded Haier fridge from a Chinese factory.

We bought a Samsung (would have preferred LG) fridge 4 years ago and have not needed a single repair. But it is pretty bare bones — French door and in freezer ice maker — no water dispenser or door controls.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#294

Post by alwa »

One of the happier things I’ve done for myself lately, at the advice of this forum, was to get a rock-solid, dumb, black-and-white Brother laser printer. It sits there and just does its job and I never have to think about it.

Does anyone have any tips as to the white-goods equivalents? Fridge, freezer, laundry machines, that kind of thing?

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#295

Post by marcosdumay »

michaelt wrote: post #171
bee_rider wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lower population density and bad zoning means the trip to the grocery store is farther, so you only want to go once every week or two. So, you get a bigger car, to fit more groceries and a bigger fridge for the same reason. Then, some stupid person fills their car completely with groceries, can’t see out the back window, and backs into you. So, you get a still bigger car, so they can’t possibly help but see you, and…

> you only want to go once every week or two How are y'all getting decent bread and milk?

Not from the US or Europe, but I buy fresh bread and store it frozen. It comes back quite well.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#296

Post by brabel »

arter4 wrote: post #52
brodsky wrote: post #25

When we upgraded our appliances, the "smart" or "wifi-enabled" ones were specifically avoided like the plague. "Dumb" appliances - especially fridges, for some reason - are becoming hard to come by, but they do exist. Electrolux, KitchenAid, even LG all make some no-frills models that can save both money and frustration. Hopefully those companies continue serving the "luddite techie" market.

Yes, I agree. I'm not a luddite per se - heck, I make a living out of making stuff talk to one another on a network. But I don't get the appeal, from a customer standpoint, of having all physical objects talk to you or to the Internet. Like, why? I get it when it comes to alarm systems. Being able to get a notification when someone breaks in is nice, because the alarm system is mostly doing its job when you're not at…

> Why do I need voice activated lights, outside of a cool party trick ("hey, I can turn the lights on with my voice")?

It's actually very convenient :) I hated when I forgot to turn some light off and had to get out of bed just to flip it. And you don't need Internet for that, just a local hub with voice recognition (though most off the shelf stuff does everything it can for you to go with Google/Apple systems, which do need to be connected all the time - besides requiring you to be logged in at all times for no benefit to you, obviously just so they can either sell your data or to ensure you're properly locked in and can deny you service if you somehow get out of line).

My heat pump does require Internet, though. Apparently the firmware must self-update continuously and you can probably be denied warranty if you don't let it do so. But at least there are genuine use cases: it can monitor the electricity prices with 1-day in advance, so it can "plan" the best time to power up and down to save electricity (at least they say it does it)... and it can control the temperature better as the temperature outside goes up and down, knowing it beforehand via weather forecasts. But of course, to actually control the machine via the app requires a paid feature :D no thanks.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#297

Post by SoftTalker »

AndrewDavis wrote: post #113
arter4 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I agree. I'm not a luddite per se - heck, I make a living out of making stuff talk to one another on a network. But I don't get the appeal, from a customer standpoint, of having all physical objects talk to you or to the Internet. Like, why? I get it when it comes to alarm systems. Being able to get a notification when someone breaks in is nice, because the alarm system is mostly doing its job when you're not at…

Even appliances that aren't internet connected are going down this terrible UX path. My old washing machine had nobs (dials) you turn. You put the clothes and soap in, close the door and press the button. My preference of type of wash and water temperature were all "saved" by the nob position. My current washing machine, nob is type of wash, capacitive touch buttons for everything else. Keeping the nob "on" keeps the…

I like solid-state controls for my laundry and dishwashing machines. The old mechanical gear-and-cam type of controls were troublesome in my experience.

However I agree on the complexity. I deliberately buy appliance with as few optoins as possible. My dishwasher has two cycles: normal or heavy-duty, and one more option for heat or air dry. It has a single button to start/stop. If you just load it and press start, it runs the last cycle chosen.

My washer and dryer (LG) have some more options but if you just load them and press Start they run the "normal" cycle which is what I want 90% of the time. Simple.

Do not want internet-connected appliances with apps and excessive features.

I'll never again have a water line connected to my refrigerator. They eventually leak and in one case did significant damage to the floor before I noticed. For cold water, keep a pitcher in the fridge. For ice, use ice trays. Simple and they always work.

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#298

Post by alwa »

mlrtime wrote: post #266
zbrozek wrote: post #251

It's increasingly difficult to get high-end performance with a simple device with a good user interface. Incidentally, I happen to have almost the same refrigerator as the author (same thing, but without the hot water dispenser). My only failure so far has been the condenser fan after seven years of operation. It was clearly an electronic failure of the onboard motor controller, which honestly has no excuse to fail.…

> It's increasingly difficult to get high-end performance with a simple device with a good user interface. It's actually not at all, but people [in general, not here] want Cheap + Features. There are expensive "prosumer/consumer" level no-feature refrigerators but people don't want to pay for them.

Are there particular brands or manufacturers that you look to for this quality, or do you look more to the price or “commercial-grade” positioning as a signal?

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#299

Post by BlueTemplar »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #209
ThePowerOfFuet wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That stove top broke after a couple months, but luckily we're in Denmark where the warranty is a year You may or may not be a fan of the Euro, but EU law is two year warranty for consumers.

maybe it's two years here too then, haven't kept track.

At this point I'm assuming that if an appliance is only providing the bare minimum 2 years warranty (manufacturer warranty, extended store warranty doesn't "count"), then it's crap, and I should look for a more expensive model.

So far that has worked decently well : my kitchen water heater (3 year warranty) is going on nearly a decade and only now is starting to have issues, while the previous one, albeit significantly cheaper (minimum warranty), only lasted half a year.

(One should not underestimate the cost / effort spent dealing with a poorly working / broken tool.)

Re: Goodbye non-KISS appliances

#300

Post by jfengel »

Nifty3929 wrote: post #291

It's very fun to get angry at appliance makers - but if they actually made the appliances that we think they should, they would go broke because nobody (except a few of us) would buy them. This is how these newer "smart" appliances started taking over in the first place. As evidence, check out some of the manufacturers that do make higher-quality dumb appliances, like Subzero and Speed Queen and notice how little con…

I suspect the manufacturers get stuck in the race to the bottom. Customers want to spend as little as possible, but that makes it hard to choose one low-end device over the other. So they add features that cost very little but attract attention -- even if they make the actual experience worse.
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