Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC • Hacker News Board

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#291

Post by jojobas » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 2:36 AM UTC

wlesieutre wrote: post #272

Octokiddie wrote: post #205

The strong anti-Bitcoin sentiment on HN is still amusing. It goes way back - 13 years or more. Having read many of these negative comments, I think part of this sentiment boils down to the commenter seeing no point to Bitcoin. Just this thread has examples. It must be more than a little annoying to feel very strongly that Bitcoin is pointless, but to also notice that it's still here. Year after year. If that shoe wer…

The whole premise of burning energy just for “proof of work” is what I hate. I work in architecture and year after year the industry is pushing to squeeze every last bit of energy efficiency out of everything. Meanwhile bitcoin is like “BURN SOME COAL TO ACCOMPLISH LITERALLY NOTHING USEFUL! AND KEEP DOING IT FOREVER!” And the crypto people will always bring up “Mining gold just to make gold bars is a waste of energy…

That "nothing useful" bit is where you don't get it.

Is Taylor Swift useful? Sex and the City? Options trading for Tesla stock?

You could eliminate 80% of the US service sector for not being useful. "Somebody wants to pay for it" is the best criterion and bitcoin fits.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#292

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 2:38 AM UTC

elif wrote: post #285

clpmsf wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People will always have a want for more ways/things to bet/gamble on - it just seems to be something in our nature.

The only losers in bitcoin are the ones that stopped. Any 5+ year holding has been ridiculously profitable. In gambling, the longer you continue, the more certain it is that you will lose. Bitcoin is a uniquely ironic form of gambling if it's gambling at all.

[deleted]

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#293

Post by koolba » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 2:38 AM UTC

elif wrote: post #285

clpmsf wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People will always have a want for more ways/things to bet/gamble on - it just seems to be something in our nature.

The only losers in bitcoin are the ones that stopped. Any 5+ year holding has been ridiculously profitable. In gambling, the longer you continue, the more certain it is that you will lose. Bitcoin is a uniquely ironic form of gambling if it's gambling at all.

We’re still below the all time highs of about $68K so will need 3 more years to see if that theory plays out.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#294

Post by keenmaster » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 2:38 AM UTC

killerstorm wrote: post #253

jrmg wrote: post #187

What’s the difference between this and e.g. GBTC?

GBTC has two problems: 1. fees are absolutely insane 2. it doesn't actually track Bitcoin price A proper ETF which aims to be competitive might be much closer to actual BTC ownership

2 will be solved by arbitrage (the discount will evaporate). 1 can be solved by competition, assuming GBTC holders actually switch to lower fee ETFs once they see the discrepancy in fees.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#295

Post by latchkey » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 2:39 AM UTC

wlesieutre wrote: post #272

Octokiddie wrote: post #205

The strong anti-Bitcoin sentiment on HN is still amusing. It goes way back - 13 years or more. Having read many of these negative comments, I think part of this sentiment boils down to the commenter seeing no point to Bitcoin. Just this thread has examples. It must be more than a little annoying to feel very strongly that Bitcoin is pointless, but to also notice that it's still here. Year after year. If that shoe wer…

The whole premise of burning energy just for “proof of work” is what I hate. I work in architecture and year after year the industry is pushing to squeeze every last bit of energy efficiency out of everything. Meanwhile bitcoin is like “BURN SOME COAL TO ACCOMPLISH LITERALLY NOTHING USEFUL! AND KEEP DOING IT FOREVER!” And the crypto people will always bring up “Mining gold just to make gold bars is a waste of energy…

> I work in architecture and year after year the industry is pushing to squeeze every last bit of energy efficiency out of everything.

So is the entire bitcoin mining industry, it is built into their ROI. Have you not noticed the J/Ghash ratio over the years?

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#296

Post by Spivak » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 2:39 AM UTC

epolanski wrote: post #246

block_dagger wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drugs and gambling do not hurt others. Throwing “crimes” in makes your reasoning weak. Where are you getting your data on the first two? I’m not sure you’re correct.

> Drugs and gambling do not hurt others. They ruin families, neighborhoods, cities.

If you ever need an example of how drugs genuinely ruin things on a large scale read absolutely anything about the opium wars.

I do contend that "ruining families" is not a thing we should base policy on because it implies both a crazy amount of government intrusion into individual lives and because it imposes rules on everyone to make the nuclear family work.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#297

Post by rafaelero » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 2:39 AM UTC

gknapp wrote: post #290

rafaelero wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin is wealth in the cloud. There's immense utility in being able to digitalize your wealth, including higher mobility and, since it is a decentralized network, assurance that it won't be inflated, confiscated and that you will have the freedom to transact it with whoever you want.

These are some interesting points around its value, but it can absolutely be inflated, no? Given that most of our standards of value are tied to fiats, and that Bitcoin's exchange with said fiats is highly variable, the value of your crypto wealth can totally be out of your control. Fortunately for most bitcoiners who got in early, it's been variable in a positive direction... But not for everyone.

Value fluctuation is not the same as asset inflation. The first relates to how much confidence people have on using BTC to represent their wealth in a given moment. The second is a decreasing of the asset's value keeping overall confidence constant.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#298

Post by ericd » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 2:40 AM UTC

simonw wrote: post #207

Octokiddie wrote: post #205

The strong anti-Bitcoin sentiment on HN is still amusing. It goes way back - 13 years or more. Having read many of these negative comments, I think part of this sentiment boils down to the commenter seeing no point to Bitcoin. Just this thread has examples. It must be more than a little annoying to feel very strongly that Bitcoin is pointless, but to also notice that it's still here. Year after year. If that shoe wer…

What needs and wants is it fulfilling for you?

Many governments attempt to force their populations to keep their savings in the nation's currency, while aggressively devaluing the currency. The richer people in those countries tend to try to get out of it via other currency holdings in offshore accounts or real estate, but the poorer set don't generally have that option. The ability to opt out of that in a way that's harder to confiscate than eg physical gold/USD is very helpful to those people.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#299

Post by etherael » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 2:40 AM UTC

Octokiddie wrote: post #205

The strong anti-Bitcoin sentiment on HN is still amusing. It goes way back - 13 years or more. Having read many of these negative comments, I think part of this sentiment boils down to the commenter seeing no point to Bitcoin. Just this thread has examples. It must be more than a little annoying to feel very strongly that Bitcoin is pointless, but to also notice that it's still here. Year after year. If that shoe wer…

> Unlike every other attempt at electronic cash that came before it, Bitcoin also doesn't need the approval of any person, police force, legislative body, military, or government. I'd challenge people who hold negative views on Bitcoin to name some other systems for which this holds true.

This isn't actually true, BTC requires a certain amount of subsidy every ten minutes from the global economy. If that subsidy is not forthcoming it ceases to function. That subsidy is constantly increasing in terms of purchasing power.

Further, the regulatory authorities of the world have complete power over the transactions that take place on the ledger, and pretty much full visibility into and out of the ledger when it comes to their controlled fiat currencies.

Neither of the above hold true for many other cryptocurrencies, but I'm not interested in shilling for them, because the entire cryptosphere as a whole is a wretched hive of scum and villainy, largely because of attempts to force the above status quo from BTC onto the remainder, which given the multitude thereof, and the ability for them to endlessly replicate and spawn, is basically doomed to failure.

Note: I am well aware that the popular opinion of BTC is not aware of much of the above, but I didn't say "people believe x" I just said "x".

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#300

Post by cornholio » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 2:40 AM UTC

Octokiddie wrote: post #205

The strong anti-Bitcoin sentiment on HN is still amusing. It goes way back - 13 years or more. Having read many of these negative comments, I think part of this sentiment boils down to the commenter seeing no point to Bitcoin. Just this thread has examples. It must be more than a little annoying to feel very strongly that Bitcoin is pointless, but to also notice that it's still here. Year after year. If that shoe wer…

> Bitcoin just needs to fill needs (or wants) not met by anything else.

That want being, in this case, the need to evade financial regulators and easily move large amounts of money untraceable. There is basically no other thing Bitcoin does better than traditional electronic cash, especially with the transaction fees reaching current values.

Is it a legitimate want? It's a complex question involving personal and political values, but let's just say not everyone who objects about crypto does so because they don't understand its real uses.