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Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

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Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

#291

Post by scyzoryk_xyz »

freedomben wrote: post #139
stavros wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does apple get to decide which app gets automatic access to my private data, on my device, without needing to ask me?

I've asked similar questions before and am usually told that this is how Apple does things and it's what makes their users happy. It's in fact why they love and choose Apple. They trust Apple to make the right decisions, and this is in fact a big part of the value add of their products. This is much related to the walled garden approach. For example, ask about why sideloading should remain not an option at all, rathe…

Oh I do want this functionality from them and I already actually do get it on MacOS, where grandma or my mom can use the App Store while I can still get an installer dmg with „this app was downloaded from internet do you trust it yadda yadda” warning. They’ret capable of doing it, they just don’t because AppStore makes a lot of nasty monopoly $.

Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

#292

Post by dhritzkiv »

CharlesW wrote: post #231
rsync wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know I sound like a broken record but I really do think app stores owe us the ability to see, in advance, what permissions an app will request. I shouldn’t have to download and install the app just to see what kind of behaviors it is going to attempt. The app stores know this information and it would be trivially easy to present it in the details of the app prior to down loading.

> I know I sound like a broken record but I really do think app stores owe us the ability to see, in advance, what permissions an app will request. Beyond what Apple already does? https://imgur.com/a/ouEqiGG

This only covers what data apps store/collect. An app can have a clean 'Privacy' disclaimer ("The developer does not collect any data from this app") but still require access to Photos, Camera, Location, etc.

Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

#293

Post by AniseAbyss »

gman83 wrote: post #223
samstave wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I more than 100% agree, I am just staing that most people just dont realize just how deeply entangled the mobile is to Asian life. I wasn't praising it, I am horrified, but also in awe by it.

I'm pretty sure most people are very aware that most of east Asia never saw massive PC adoption and so their internet developed in a very mobile-centric way. This hasn't been surprising for a long time?

[dead]

Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

#294

Post by TylerE »

ubercow13 wrote: post #290
TylerE wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure I agree - in fact pretty sure I don’t. Having lots of permission dialogs just trains users to mindlessly click yes on everything, because they just want to do the thing, not think about how the sausage is made.

So just don't have them, and don't let them think about it?

I'm saying that a default of "ask every single time" is not good. For anyone.

Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

#295

Post by Tigress8780 »

paxys wrote: post #105

Reading through the linked docs, this API seems to specifically be for apps created by owners of WiFi hotspots to help users connect to those hotspots ( https://developer.apple.com/documentation/networkextension/h... ). > NEHotspotHelper allows your app to participate in the process of authenticating with hotspot networks, that is, Wi-Fi networks where the user must interact with the network to gain access to the wid…

These "super apps" get special treatment everywhere.

Many phone manufacturers even automatically grant certain permissions when these apps are installed (the list is sometimes hard-coded into the system), since there are people who do not understand what is "permission", and they blame the phone manufacturer for not being able to use WeChat/Alipay.

Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

#297

Post by MrVandemar »

WendyTheWillow wrote: post #263
0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I should just give up on privacy, because the typical user prioritizes convenience.

That's your choice! But suggesting everyone operate on a substantially less convenient basis due to your specific desires for privacy seems... selfish.

But suggesting everyone operate on a substantially less privacy due to your specific desires for convenience seems... selfish. Not to mention, immoral - don't we all have a fundamental right to privacy?

Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

#298

Post by nucleardog »

freedomben wrote: post #243
wredue wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not that I trust Apple, it’s that I trust Apple infinitely more than I trust the largest spy network on earth and existing without a smartphone today is difficult. If you need a smartphone, you can choose between a company that has some missteps, or a demonstrably evil spy network. I know who I am choosing.

Thanks, your position certainly makes sense to me regarding a Pixel phone with the stock software on it, but much less so when considering options like GrapheneOS or any of the Androids made by other non-Google companies (like OnePlus, etc). That's the point at which usually "user experience" or "I'm already in the Apple ecosystem" usually come to fore-front as the reason. I don't really trust of those big companies,…

Where do I buy a GrapheneOS phone from a manufacturer that tests the entire package and releases updates?

I’ve done the “just buy unlocked hardware and install this or that” in the past. My phone ended up taking up way more of my time than I’m willing to let it and my life has only gotten busier since.

Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

#299

Post by nucleardog »

bloppe wrote: post #222
freedomben wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've asked similar questions before and am usually told that this is how Apple does things and it's what makes their users happy. It's in fact why they love and choose Apple. They trust Apple to make the right decisions, and this is in fact a big part of the value add of their products. This is much related to the walled garden approach. For example, ask about why sideloading should remain not an option at all, rathe…

This mentality is fascinating to me. In a sense, nobody owns an Apple device. It's more like renting: the landlord keeps a bunch of doors locked and has strict rules, but the place comes pre-furnished and includes millennial-grade amenities. I can see the appeal if you don't particularly care about owning a device, but it blows my mind that people become so dedicated to this way of living.

I think the renting analogy is a decent one and I’m on the other side of this, so let me give you my perspective.

When you own a home, you are 100% liable and responsible. If anything breaks, it’s an unexpected demand on my time and/or an unexpected expense. When you rent, you just call the landlord and say “shit’s broke” and it’s no longer your responsibility. I don’t have the mental bandwidth these days for the unexpected demands the house places on me.

This is _exactly_ the experience I had with Android versus iPhone.

I bought the original Android Dev Phone 1. Still have it somewhere. Moved to a Galaxy Nexus, Nexus 4, couple of OnePlus phones, etc. Used the stock Android, Cyanogenmod, LineageOS, and others. Did all sorts of fun stuff.

Then my life got busier and busier and busier and I found myself sitting up late one night dicking with fixing something on my phone again and just was like nope, this is not how I need or want to be spending my time. My life has only gotten busier since. I don’t have time for suddenly finding out one day that the last update that I installed broke the microphone on my phone and I can no longer use it as a phone.

Using the iPhone is having a landlord. If it breaks, it’s just broken. Not only do I not need to feel responsible for fixing it, I couldn’t if I wanted to. It takes up no space in my head.

So the fact that Apple (1) generally doesn’t release terribly broken software; (2) supports their devices with updates for a long time; and (3) is vaguely respectful of privacy and security makes the iPhone an obvious winner for me.

Even just making sideloading _available_ is going to shift the space my phone sits in my head. It’s no longer going to be “it works or it doesn’t, if it works and you don’t like how it works that sucks nothing to do about it so you may as well forget about it”. It’s going to be a constant “this is vaguely annoying I bet I could find a replacement dialer that _does_ allow you to search your call history…”. I’ll literally pay a premium for someone to take options away from me rather than have yet another place I need to exercise my self control.

I already spend all day with needy computers fixing and improving and such. Having a dumb appliance that lets me not do that is what I _want_.

Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

#300

Post by WendyTheWillow »

MrVandemar wrote: post #297
WendyTheWillow wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's your choice! But suggesting everyone operate on a substantially less convenient basis due to your specific desires for privacy seems... selfish.

But suggesting everyone operate on a substantially less privacy due to your specific desires for convenience seems... selfish. Not to mention, immoral - don't we all have a fundamental right to privacy?

Where did I suggest such a thing?

And everything discussed is consent driven anyway. It’s not like a smart phone is mandated.

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