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'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

aljazeera.com

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Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#291

Post by dang »

JoshTko wrote: post #260
anovick wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but even if I concede the notion that this piece promotes "intellectual curiosity" in some amount (how much?), this news source is highly biased and has been found to spread fake news especially on the events since October 7th including current war in Gaza. There is real harm in spreading this information. As you may or may not know, mobs and individuals around the world are fed such false narratives that…

Are you saying this article is dangerous because it may further engage folks that have been already enraged due to having been misinformation elsewhere to the point it could result in violence? Also how does that compare with the actual harm and health of innocent people mentioned in the article?

Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38616662 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38618540. We're trying for a different spirit in this thread.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#292

Post by mupuff1234 »

kamikazeturtles wrote: post #204
mupuff1234 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statistically that seems quite improbable as Jews are only 0.2% of the worlds population vs the Arab and Muslim world (which majority supports Palestinians) Edit: not to mention the CCP and Russia taking an anti Israel stance as well, both known to conduct massive online campaigns to align with their own agendas.

There are a lot of zionist christians and publications are much safer when reporting from a pro-Israel bias. Most muslims don't speak english so if a muslim is commenting about this topic, they're probably one of the few million in one of the english speaking countries.

And idk how many evangelists you'll find online outside very specific communities.

Plus a large percentage of Jewish people also don't speak English that well / at all, not to mention that you don't need to speak English to click upvote/downvote/flag/etc

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#293

Post by liorsbg »

qwertthrowway wrote: post #210
nahumfarchi wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I don't think that is a reasonable take at all. 1. This is warfare, not civil law. Hamas, which is the sovereign in Gaza (there has been no Israeli military presence there for years), commited an act of war in which hundreds were killed, raped, and kidnapped. Israel, as a state, has the moral duty to fight back and make sure this never happens again. Otherwise, it breaks the most basic contract between citizen an…

I think an honest answer would be to end occupation and oppression of the Palestinians by Israel. Any occupying force has an interest to silence and stop indigenous people from claiming their land rights. For example, Gaza had been described as an open air prison for almost 2 decades because its borders, imports, sea usage, had all been controlled by Israel. This is not what we call “sovereign rule”. The West Bank ha…

In Gaza, all they would have to do is put their weapons down. Blockade and restrictions would lift, and Gaza could be prosperous.

In the West Bank, I agree that the settlements are abhorrent and need to be removed.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#294

Post by RamblingCTO »

regularjack wrote: post #252
iddan wrote: post #136

[flagged]

Maybe rockets wouldn't be shot if Israel would not illegally occupy territories. It seems pretty logical to me that when a state starts illegally extending its borders pretty much immediately after its formation, their neighbors will not be happy about it and will fight back. No need to be an antisemite to understand this, it's just common sense.

> Maybe rockets wouldn't be shot if Israel would not illegally occupy territories.

Tell me you know nothing about this conflict without telling me you know nothing about it. Israel was inches away from just having to give the Palestinians their own state. Why then, did Hamas attack just before that? The answer is simple: it is and always has been about removing Israel. That's true for Hamas and all their supporters. They aren't interested in a two-state solution. So don't act like it's about Israel not being a nice neighbour.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#295

Post by edanm »

tmnvix wrote: post #274
bluescrn wrote: post #73

Meanwhile, Egypt seems to get a free pass, minimal criticism for keeping its border locked down while being adjacent to a terrible conflict? They could at least let the most vulnerable/sick/injured flee.

The Rafah crossing is one of about half a dozen border crossings in Gaza. Is it really so out of the question that Israel allow civilians to seek refuge within Israel while they wage their campaign? I am fully aware that it would be politically unpopular, but without allowing that to happen I find it hard to take Israeli politicians at their word when they claim they are doing everything to minimise civilian casualti…

It is absolutely impossible. There is no way to tell who are civilians and who are Hamas militants - they purposeful wear civilian clothing and hide amongst civilians.

If Israel were to let them through the border into Israel, there is no possible way to prevent Hamas militants from killing many many more people.

(Unless you mean to create temporary refuge camps heavily armed within Israel that would still be closed borders, which doesn't seem like an improvemnt over the current situation, if you know anything about the geography of the area.)

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#296

Post by 0xDEF »

qwertthrowway wrote: post #210
nahumfarchi wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I don't think that is a reasonable take at all. 1. This is warfare, not civil law. Hamas, which is the sovereign in Gaza (there has been no Israeli military presence there for years), commited an act of war in which hundreds were killed, raped, and kidnapped. Israel, as a state, has the moral duty to fight back and make sure this never happens again. Otherwise, it breaks the most basic contract between citizen an…

I think an honest answer would be to end occupation and oppression of the Palestinians by Israel. Any occupying force has an interest to silence and stop indigenous people from claiming their land rights. For example, Gaza had been described as an open air prison for almost 2 decades because its borders, imports, sea usage, had all been controlled by Israel. This is not what we call “sovereign rule”. The West Bank ha…

The internationally recognized State of Palestine is made up of two disjoint territories: Gaza and the West Bank. Israel gave peace a chance and left Gaza in 2005. The Palestinians immediately turned Gaza into a forward base and started attacking Israel. Israel only started the "blockade" (inspecting imports into Gaza) in 2007.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#297

Post by ardit33 »

burnerburnson wrote: post #226
ardit33 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

"Intentional mass murdering of civilians" is what Palestine did to start this war in the first place. So even if Israel were deliberately targeting civilians (there's no evidence for this) they would still be on the right side of this conflict.

bruh.... this is clearly 'faschist' type of argument. "They deserve it". The dehumanizing of a whole population is just sick.

Last times this happen in europe were: 1) WW2, 2) The massacres in the Yogoslavian wars, and especially in Sebrenica which was a clear ethnic cleansning/genocide and the war leaders ended up getting convicted for war crimes and crimes against the humanity.

Benjamin Netanyahu is on the way to become the next Milosevic, a war criminal.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#299

Post by nico »

qwerpy wrote: post #208
nicoburns wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other wars are discussed. There have been threads on Russia vs. Ukraine in recent months. Perhaps Israel look bad in the press because they are acting badly. It seems to me that Israel are unambiguously the stronger power in this conflict: they have are much stronger military, and additionally have the backing of the US and a bunch of other nations that would step in were Israeli territory under threat. And they are…

The way you put it, it sounds like Israel got up in the morning one day and for reasons no one can understand, decided to start inflicting civilian casualties on Palestinians.

You are correct that there is a history there, but

They way you put it, it sounds like Israel wasn’t created by forcefully stealing land from the Palestinian people that were already there

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#300

Post by nielsbot »

nahumfarchi wrote: post #155
cassepipe wrote: post #56

Those are the most serious allegations: "The men and teenage boys were taken to a warehouse where they sat on a bare floor covered in scattered grains of rice. There they were beaten, interrogated and verbally abused. There was no sleep, and the grains of rice cut their skin as they sat there, undressed." A man claims: "Some people didn’t return from the torture sessions. We would hear their screams and then nothing.…

No, I don't think that is a reasonable take at all. 1. This is warfare, not civil law. Hamas, which is the sovereign in Gaza (there has been no Israeli military presence there for years), commited an act of war in which hundreds were killed, raped, and kidnapped. Israel, as a state, has the moral duty to fight back and make sure this never happens again. Otherwise, it breaks the most basic contract between citizen an…

This is a longer version of "Israel has the right to defend itself". Maybe Israel shouldn't exist but since it does I think we can agree it has a right to defend itself since if it doesn't innocents will be harmed/killed/raped.

That said, even in war, there are long established rules of engagement in war designed to protect (as possible) non-combatants. Israel is not respecting these rules at all. And beyond the insane death toll and indiscriminate bombing, Gazans are hungry and without water and shelter.

Of course, Israel should exercise restraint, especially since it's better armed and has such sophisticated intelligence. Now it's making itself a pariah (except in the US)

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