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DoorDash raises minimum pay to $29.93 per hour in NYC

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Re: DoorDash raises minimum pay to $29.93 per hour in NYC

#291

Post by SheinhardtWigCo »

bobbylarrybobby wrote: post #288
theappsecguy wrote: post #144

I feel like the only viable model for these delivery apps is delivery with autonomous vehicles like Nuro (or any other, this is just the company I have heard of). Whether that’s actually viable and how soon, I have no idea, but the model as it stands does not work currently. A whole lot of people will lose income (no matter how mediocre) if this were to come to fruition though.

In New York, there is imply not enough space on the roads for autonomous vehicles to work for this purpose. Delivery only works now because delivery drivers all use bikes, e-bikes, and mopeds, which are immune to traffic.

There’s no reason autonomous vehicles used for this purpose can’t also have smaller form factors.

Re: DoorDash raises minimum pay to $29.93 per hour in NYC

#292

Post by justsomehnguy »

bigtunacan wrote: post #212
darth_avocado wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was not very doable pretty much everywhere outside NYC. The lower density of restaurants made it harder for delivery to be a thing except all the pizza places that offered it.

That's a generalization with no supporting data. As an actual sample size of 1; I lived in a smaller city of only about 250k people and there was a huge selection of restaurants that offered delivery, not just pizza. Honestly DoorDash when it did come reduced restaurant profits, lowered quality of food delivered, and increased consumer costs. Zero advantage for anyone other than DoorDash unless you consider being abl…

> Zero advantage for anyone other than DoorDash

Since when the capitalism seeks for advantage of Regular Joe?

Re: DoorDash raises minimum pay to $29.93 per hour in NYC

#293

Post by resolutebat »

delfinom wrote: post #190
8bitben wrote: post #18

The platform fees and the insane menu price markups that restaurants apply for delivery app orders have made it impractical to use Uber Eats & DoorDash for a couple years now IMO. I only ever consider using them when offered at least 50% off. Mandated minimum earnings will benefit the drivers, but that won't help drivers that have to quit the platforms because people stop using them.

Everytime I get one of those uber eats coupons for 25% or even 50% off a order, it's rigged. Open two windows, apply the coupon in one. Watch as the order totals are not 50% apart. They instantly jack the service fees on the 50% coupon order.

It's 50% off the base price, which excludes the delivery fee, the convenience fee, the inconvenience fee, the COVID recovery charge, the Livable Wage surcharge etc.

The last time I ordered UberEats, all the fees plus tip nearly doubled the cost of my order.

Re: DoorDash raises minimum pay to $29.93 per hour in NYC

#294

Post by phendrenad2 »

crmd wrote: post #131

As an old person, I'd like to point out that my hometown of New York City had a dynamic, world class restaurant scene, including a cornucopia of home delivery, long before the tech platform companies found a way to siphon ~40% of consumer spend out of the local restaurant economy in exchange for some friction reduction. We were doing great. But you had a drawer full of paper menus and had to call the restaurant.

The time savings of having a digital, interactive menu, where you don't have to worry that the person on the other end will interpret "no mayo" as "extra mayo" should not be underappreciated.

Re: DoorDash raises minimum pay to $29.93 per hour in NYC

#295

Post by legitster »

grecy wrote: post #142
legitster wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was never a sustainable business model to begin with. It takes 10 minutes for a chef to make my meal, and 25 minutes for someone to come to the restaurant, pick it up, and drive it to my house. The only way it works is if someone else's time is an order of magnitude less valuable than yours.

> The only way it works is if someone else's time is an order of magnitude less valuable than yours I mean, you've basically just described the entire service industry and virtually any job in North American where tips are expected. There is an entire class of people ready to serve you.

I mean, don't get me wrong. My first job was fast food. But there's a difference between being able to serve 50 customers in an hour and 2.

Re: DoorDash raises minimum pay to $29.93 per hour in NYC

#296

Post by gnicholas »

delfinom wrote: post #194
gnicholas wrote: post #15

> With the changes required by NYC and the impact it will have on our system, we are pausing our Priority Access program, which gives Dashers who have high ratings priority on higher-paying offers. Since Dashers will earn a guaranteed minimum rate, the benefits offered by this program will not apply in NYC. The Top Dasher program is still available for qualified NYC Dashers. So they're guaranteeing higher pay for all…

"High ratings" means you don't reject offers from Door Dash. Meaning if you get a $2 untipped order to deliver 10 miles away, you accept it. Each rejection hits your "Acceptance rating". It was a marketing ploy to trick people into losing money delivering. Because Door Dash can't force people to tip, someone has to take the financially bad orders.

I did wonder if being a top-tier dasher meant you got great ratings from customers, or if it meant you did DD's bidding...

> Because Door Dash can't force people to tip, someone has to take the financially bad orders.

Well, they're trying, by not-so-subtlely telling customers that if they don't want their orders to get cold, they need to pre-emptively tip.

Re: DoorDash raises minimum pay to $29.93 per hour in NYC

#297

Post by xboxnolifes »

jsyang00 wrote: post #196
zepton wrote: post #147

DoorDash is being misleading when they imply that NYC required a minimum wage of $29.93/hr for delivery workers. DoorDash could comply with the bylaw by paying its contractors $17.96/hr for the full time they work (including time waiting for orders). But DoorDash instead chose to use the "Alternate Method" which has a 67% higher minimum wage, but only for the time the contractor is actively delivering food (not stand…

Wouldn't this incentivize Dasher's to... take longer to deliver? This whole model feels screwed up to me.

Only if you ignore tips.

Re: DoorDash raises minimum pay to $29.93 per hour in NYC

#298

Post by Sai_ »

sowbug wrote: post #289
Sai_ wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can they not offset these expenses against their tax? If you’re running a business out of your vehicle, the cost of operating that vehicle is the cost of running the business which should be treated like that by the tax code.

The marginal federal tax rate for someone making $50,000 is 12%. So every dollar spent on gas (or whatever other deductible expenses) would lower federal taxes by 12 cents. But I'd be surprised if many drivers grossed more than $50K/year. If they earn less, the tax benefit of deductibility is even smaller.

Personal income tax and the tax treatment of businesses are different - as a business, you’d earn some revenue from doordash while showing some expense (like gas, insurance premiums, and your salary). Your company would then pay tax on the net and you’d pay tax on the salary you give yourself from your company.

Not a CPA so I’m pretty sure I’m oversimplifying this and there are lower bounds I don’t know about which prevent most gig workers from operating like this.

Re: DoorDash raises minimum pay to $29.93 per hour in NYC

#299

Post by pinkgolem »

porknubbins wrote: post #248
CydeWeys wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it doesn't include any of that. It's "independent contracting". Though keep in mind they're throttle e-bikes, so there isn't a lot of actual pedaling going on. And as far as accumulated workplace injuries go, merely riding a bike is pretty easy compared to a lot of blue collar work. No, I think what'd get you here is the crashes.

I wouldn’t discount the long term health costs of breathing exhaust fumes all day either. Even as a recreational cyclist or occasional commuter in NYC I noticed it.

Tbh... It's likely still has a better balance then your average office job where you are sitting all day every day.

Re: DoorDash raises minimum pay to $29.93 per hour in NYC

#300

Post by troupo »

sokoloff wrote: post #242
troupo wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's a somewhat outdated narrative to still be parroting. It's not. Most of those "innovators" are still posting losses in the hundreds of millions > Uber just got included into the SP 500. One of the pre-requisites for that is being profitable on a GAAP basis. Because you can somehow lose a billion dollars a year for 10 years, become a publicly traded company with a steatement "we don't even know if we'll ever t…

I don’t have much dog in this fight, but it seems as if Uber’s losses were self-evidently sustainable.

> it seems as if Uber’s losses were self-evidently sustainable.

With the unlimited free investor money. Same goes for the rest of "amazing starup innovators" of recent years (e.g. YCombinator's startups). The flow of money has now stopped/slowed, and we now see mass layoffs and a wave of bankrupcies.

Losing a billion dollars a year for 10 years is not a sustainable business. But somehow it has become the norm in IT.

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