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The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

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Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#291

Post by 7thaccount »

serf wrote: post #289
7thaccount wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the commenter is saying you can't be happy without children, but it's a kind of experience that you either have or you don't, and it's hard to understand if you never had children. I'll add some context below in case you're interested in hearing about my own perspective. I was pretty darn happy as someone who got to go read a book each weekend at a coffee shop and workout 3x per week. I eventually had a…

>but it's a kind of experience that you either have or you don't, and it's hard to understand if you never had children. this kind of mention is only ever asymmetrical -- generally in the direction you mentioned -- but i'd like to mention that being a childless adult with a long term relationship (or not) is also a unique perspective that very young parents / couples will never experience. I had plenty of friends in…

I should have further specified that I didn't have a child at 14 or 17, but at approximately 30. I essentially had about a decade to live the care free life with my wife who I'd been with since 18. So I understand that lifestyle choice and it's fine. I'm offering a counter explanation for the other comment suggesting we're all delusional for saying it is a unique experience. That doesn't mean the childless lifestyle can't be rewarding as well in a different manner (I already acknowledged that), but for myself, I consider myself better off and I believe most probably agree (although I'm sure there are plenty out there that may have a different opinion).

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#292

Post by 7thaccount »

amrocha wrote: post #270
7thaccount wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the commenter is saying you can't be happy without children, but it's a kind of experience that you either have or you don't, and it's hard to understand if you never had children. I'll add some context below in case you're interested in hearing about my own perspective. I was pretty darn happy as someone who got to go read a book each weekend at a coffee shop and workout 3x per week. I eventually had a…

And I'm very happy for you, but I'm not arguing whether you can be happy with children or not. I'm arguing about whether having children is above every other kind of happiness.

I'm not sure if anyone suggested that directly. It does bring happiness sure, but maybe some mean a different kind of fulfillment you get through living for others. You'd likely get the same thing through adoption or working at shelters I'd imagine.

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#293

Post by leononame »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #287
leononame wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having kids is a benefit to society. Even though nobody has kids "for the greater good", it still is in everyone's interest that there is a strong upcoming generation. I think it's not unreasonable for a society to pay parents who decide to stay at home during the first years for their efforts, if only to make having kids sufficiently attractive. Lots of people just can't afford to stay home and capitalism makes it h…

This is where theory and practice collide. In theory, society should pay parents. In practice, paying parents results in incentivizing the people you do not want being parents into having more kids. What society really wants is to incentivize good parents to have kids, but that is nowhere near possible to measure and implement.

Do you have any evidence supporting this?

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#294

Post by nathanfig »

philip1209 wrote: post #139

Suburbanization is pretty much the exact opposite of hunter-gatherer life.

I'm not a big fan of suburbs but in no way did this trend begin with suburbs, nor are densely urban or sparsely rural areas close to the community model described in the article.

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#295

Post by nathanfig »

A lot of attention given to the inadequacies of the nuclear family, but industrialization seems likely the reason we broke into nuclear families to begin with. Smaller family units could move to where the breadwinner needed to go, breaking up intergenerational communities. Funny how our mobility is greater than ever, yet somehow less able to stay together.

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#296

Post by lotsofpulp »

leononame wrote: post #293
lotsofpulp wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is where theory and practice collide. In theory, society should pay parents. In practice, paying parents results in incentivizing the people you do not want being parents into having more kids. What society really wants is to incentivize good parents to have kids, but that is nowhere near possible to measure and implement.

Do you have any evidence supporting this?

Sorry, I missed the “first years” portion of your comment. I had originally read it as simply paying people to be stay at home parents for the whole time they have children at home.

Paid parental leave up until at least breastfeeding is done is a no brainer.

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#297

Post by Proziam »

amrocha wrote: post #266
Proziam wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This stance strikes me as odd. Every parent was once a non-parent, and therefore can compare their own experience before and after. I'm sure parents are a little (intentionally) delusional at times, nobody wants to seem like a 'bad' or 'uncaring' parent. But to assume that the extreme majority of parents are lying about enjoying an experience that they've been evolutionarily primed for seems like flat-earth level rea…

My issue is not with the fact that some parents are happy with their decision. My issue is the implication that the joy of parenthood is above every other joy. For comparison, you don't see programmers claiming the joy of programming is superior to all other jobs. Mountaineers don't claim that you haven't enjoyed life unless you climb mountains. Why? Because those things are obviously joyful, but not accessible to ev…

The same reason sex is pleasurable. We would not be here if it were not this way.

Put in different terms, there are many experiences which have an evolutionary origin. Disgust reactions to certain sights/smells are a near-universal experience, for example. Individuals that don't share these experiences (or who are attracted to them) are considered weird or degenerate precisely because they are so universal.

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#298

Post by rpmisms »

Apocryphon wrote: post #272
rpmisms wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fundamentally disagree with that post. The idea of Idiocracy was clear, but it made an additional statement with what it decided to portray as "stupid". Two things can be true at the same time.

> We live in polarized times, which means that for every ‘Idiocracy is a documentary!’ take that goes around, there’s also a critique that argues that Idiocracy is a celebration of eugenics. Have you thought about that interpretation of it? Well, yeah. I mean I’ve actually read that a couple of times. But to me, I thought the opening made it very clear that whatever side you take, nature and nurture are both covered…

The quote gives me the impression that I'm right. My earlier comment: > I agree with your second statement, which is why conscientious people should have kids.

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#299

Post by Apocryphon »

rpmisms wrote: post #298
Apocryphon wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We live in polarized times, which means that for every ‘Idiocracy is a documentary!’ take that goes around, there’s also a critique that argues that Idiocracy is a celebration of eugenics. Have you thought about that interpretation of it? Well, yeah. I mean I’ve actually read that a couple of times. But to me, I thought the opening made it very clear that whatever side you take, nature and nurture are both covered…

The quote gives me the impression that I'm right. My earlier comment: > I agree with your second statement, which is why conscientious people should have kids.

Two statements you made

> because if stupid people have more kids, there will be more stupid people.

You are implying that their kids will necessarily be stupid, which is not so- as per the Mike Judge quote, nurturing and environmental factors, which may included adoptive parents but is far from limited to such, may produce alternate outcomes.

> When some people stop procreating and educating the next generation, the world population does not simply go down. Instead it gets replaced by those who do continue multiplying.

Just because there will be other people who procreate says nothing about the rates in which they do so, that does not guarantee world population will not continue to go down regardless.

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#300

Post by eastbound »

Apocryphon wrote: post #198
seec wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I know people try very hard to not understand. So, they don't have to feel concerned and actually do stuff to fix it. That's how people are generally, let's just ignore everything until the house is on fire... But that doesn't make it much less frustrating. And to be honest there are more and more people understanding my view in between words telling me their stories and ultimately agreeing. I have to say that…

Is single motherhood still the bogeyman as during the era of 90s entitlement reform? In these times when the younger generations are having less and less sex, much less getting pregnant? You might as well be complaining about Cadillac driving welfare queens.

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