Live data from Hacker News

Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

especiales.eldiario.es

291–300 of 457 posts

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#291
post #284

Isn't there an optimum of about 8-12 stories for any sort of building, before the cross section of plumbing and elevator shafts make it less economical?

This is obviously a function of the price of land, otherwise you wouldn't see very large high rises in Manhattan or similar.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#292
post #72

What's interesting is that the Netherlands is pretty low on the list of countries with the highest percentage of people in collective dwellings (at 21% vs Spain's 65%, only the UK is lower), even though it's one of the most densely populated countries in Europe. I suppose that's the result of the mentioned "mushroom neighbourhoods"? Great visuals btw.

Lots of deserts and mountains in Spain, while the Netherlands is mostly flat and it's a bunch of small villages that are really close together.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#293

Excellent storytelling, fluidly integrating geospatial data and other visual elements and statistics in a smooth flow. Who knows, maybe one day such a "visual space" inside a browser would be interactive, a Google Earth type of thing as far as navigation goes, but with data queries that allow on the fly to populate various widgets. An expert could livestream a story or "save" it for later publication.

Journalism presented as some sort of CD-ROM experience was quite neat when we were all a little bit interested in what web browsers could do.

Today I assume a web browser and/or the device it is on could kill me and eat my lunch given the proper input.

I just want to read an article with illustrations, a format that will never cease to be effective.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#294
post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Animation is smooth as butter for me (M1 Mac, Chrome)

Linux, Chrome. I can't even read the website, feels like it watching animated GIF loading on dialup modem in 1994. It jumps from one area to another randomly

Sounds like hardware rendering is not working for you. No need to blame that on the website.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most suburbs also have higher density zones where you can have apartments. The single family homes get the majority of the land space, but there are also apartments and townhouses which are more dense.

There are sometimes apartments spotted around in a suburby area, but due to the nature of US suburbs they don't really get many of the advantages density should bring - everything you might want to go to is still at least a moderate car ride away, there's no people out and about because there's no reason for them to be there, etc. Any time you leave your apartment you go straight to the parking lot and get in your ca…

> due to the nature of US suburbs

The US is a big place. Lots of different suburbs.

> everything you might want to go to is still at least a moderate car ride away, there's no people out and about because there's no reason for them to be there

Can you point at specific places like this? Google street view links?

Every suburb I've lived in the US I can walk to just about everything I need, kids walk to playground and parks, friends houses, etc.

I'm curious to see these suburbs where one can't walk anywhere.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#296

Different strokes for different folks. I’m a very happy single family home dweller. Living in a dense city feels claustrophobic.

Different strokes indeed. As a very happy apartment/flat/condo dweller, the suburban home life feels to me like being trapped in a tiny deserted island (the cartoon ones, with a single coconut tree), just a tiny personal plot surrounded by endless nothingness, with nowhere to go within reach. When in the suburbs I end up just staying in the couch all the time, because I can't be bothered to face the big journey neces…

> As a very happy apartment/flat/condo dweller, the suburban home life feels to me like being trapped in a tiny deserted island (the cartoon ones, with a single coconut tree), just a tiny personal plot surrounded by endless nothingness, with nowhere to go within reach. When in the suburbs I end up just staying in the couch all the time, because I can't be bothered to face the big journey necessary to go places, feels very isolating.

This sounds like a cartoon version of suburbs! Can you point at actual suburbs (google map links) where you might be surrounded by endless nothingness and can't walk anywhere?

I've lived most of my life in suburbs in the US and have never experienced this. The only time I lived in a place I couldn't walk to any destination was when I lived in a quite rural area. But that was rural, not suburban.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#297

Different strokes for different folks. I’m a very happy single family home dweller. Living in a dense city feels claustrophobic.

More dense construction in urban areas will probably help make single family homes affordable for those who want them. I imagine people who own single family homes in nice suburbs are pretty happy about it, especially if they bought it when prices were half of what they are currently and are paying <3% interest.

> More dense construction in urban areas will probably help make single family homes affordable for those who want them.

That seems highly unlikely. Let's look at how SFH have become very affordable in the densest area in the US, Manhattan. Or the second densest, SF.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#298
post #284

Isn't there an optimum of about 8-12 stories for any sort of building, before the cross section of plumbing and elevator shafts make it less economical?

There are lots of different factors the come into play as you go higher.

Above 3 floors you need elevators for the disabled, while shorter buildings often cant get by without. (check with a lawyer for what your local law says - I've been told that the 3 floor isn't what the ADA doesn't actually say the highest is, just what most consider it to say). Even without disability laws, people generally want elevators to go higher.

Conventional wood framing is the cheapest, but 5 is about the max floors you can get. Brick framing can apparently get you to about 10 floors. There are lots of other construction methods - check with a proper civil engineer for what the limits and costs of each are.

Somewhere around 6-15 floors your city water will no longer have enough pressure and so your building will need booster pumps. Similarly, drain water needs special care to ensure the falling water doesn't burst the plumbing.

You local fire may code allow for less strict standards if the fire department ladder trucks can just drive up to each window and rescue someone in a burning building. If that cannot happen people need to get down the stairs in case of fire (I've always wondering how the disabled will do this) so you need to ensure those stairs can be used in case of fire.

Floor space per person is also a factor. Richer people tend to be willing to pay for more space than poor people, and poor people tend to have more kids. Thus if you make larger apartments you don't need as much elevator space. This one is tricky though as rich people tend to prefer newer buildings so you might discover that when the building gets old you can't rent some apartments because of the building max occupancy. Still, office buildings tend to have a lot more people per area, and they are more likely to leave at the same time, so I don't think space per person can be a big factor. (but school dorms need to consider all students going to class at the same time)

As the person paying for a building you get to optimize those factors (generally for profit, but you can pick other considerations). Good luck.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#299
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone on the receiving end of a tacit subsidy is pretty happy about it.

not sure what this means

It means that when you look at government revenue vs expenditure per square mile, urban dwellers are massively subsidizing surburbanites. It's mainly because maintainence of roads, parking, and utilities for a spread-out surburbia is vastly less efficient than it is for a tightly packed city.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#300
post #5

Spaniard here, I expected to see an infographic basically based around Madrid and Barcelona but it seems that special care has been taken to cover the whole country, kudos to El Diario team.

One thing that annoyed me is that I constantly had to pause and Google all the locations. They really could have put some images about the different places and buildings so that it's easier to imagine what they were talking about.

... and I think I'm about to throw up, but that's a smaller issue, I take one for the team to encourage creative web development.

Post reply on HN