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LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

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Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the divisiveness they employ makes them a political distraction. What divisiveness? Most news I hear about unions paints them as a negative without backing anything up. > We need workers’ rights for everyone. Not just those who are in a union. Agreed, but we have to start somewhere. If unions are able to push for some type of labor benefit, then good for them.

> What divisiveness? Unions are fundamentally about putting workers and management into separate categories. (And unionized workers on a pedestal above others.) In an industrial context, this makes sense. In a start-up, it does not.

This is so fundamentally wrong I don’t even know where to start.

By definition of function, employees and shareholders are at diametrically opposed incentives if the organization prioritizes return on capital over all other things.

If you are in an organization, where in the majority of the ownership is held by the people who have funded it, then at the starting point, it is already adversarial unless you are an equal partner in equity.

Since the vast majority of organizations are set up as such, and unless you have a controlling interest in the organization from a legal stock perspective, then you are in a position of no power to start with, and it will continue that way until you become a significant shareholder.

Unions are required to provide the collective action necessary to counter the overwhelming legal power of shareholders in the current structure.

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s more of the principle of the thing. We work in an industry that aspires to disrupt everything from human relations (social media), to commerce (Amazon, the sharing economy), to biology, nutrition, and the very laws of physics (or at least material science.) Even if a lot of this is just marketing hype, there is still ambition required to come up with such utopian grandiose goals. But whenever the idea of a union…

Some things we disrupt, others we fail, often because the very laws of physics are against it. There are also laws of what makes a union work and they don't point to success. Mind those laws are not as absolute as the laws of physics, but they also place limits on what a union can do, and in turn make me less interested.

That still doesn’t prevent all sorts of audacious, even foolhardy experiments from being undertaken in this industry. We should seek to dream bigger in every arena, even in the area of labor.

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Could you please cite the evidence? You can google, plenty of sources, but the best evidence is how hard every company fights to prevent companies from forming one. How much has Amazon spent on union busting? > Unlike the union leader, the CEO isn't working for you, so that private jet isn't coming out of your pocket, unlike the previously mentioned luxury car We'll probably disagree on this, but all profit comes f…

> how hard every company fights This only shows that companies believe that unions are harmful for them. Which I support, as usually unions are bad for both companies and workers > from the amount workers were underpaid No, workers are paid in full long before buybacks happen. Shareholders are usually paid last.

You misunderstood what I meant by "underpaid".

If a worker takes $100 in materials and builds a $1000 chair, they created $900 in value. If you pay the worker $20, then the employee was "underpaid" $880. That $880 is what is used to pay the CEO, stock buybacks, dividends, etc.

(I'm not suggesting the employee necessarily deserves all of that $880 of course, but it is the value from which the worker's pay comes from)

If workers are paid according to the value they create, then profits would be $0. (Revenue - COGS - Compensation). So, there wouldn't be money left to pay for dividends or stock buybacks.

Therefore, necessarily, employee compensation must be suppressed to afford stock buybacks and dividends.

My point is that everything comes from the same pot. Stock buybacks and dividends "could" have been employee compensation.

It does require the underlying premise that workers should be paid according to the value they create. I suspect you'll disagree on this, but I hope I've explained enough to share my point of view.

> This only shows that companies believe that unions are harmful for them. Which I support, as usually unions are bad for both companies and workers

Fine.

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/how-unions-are-cruc...

https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/labor-unions...

https://www.jec.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/f46bc621-abb1...

https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0113/are-labor-u...

Please show me some sources that show unions hurt employees.

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how hard every company fights This only shows that companies believe that unions are harmful for them. Which I support, as usually unions are bad for both companies and workers > from the amount workers were underpaid No, workers are paid in full long before buybacks happen. Shareholders are usually paid last.

You misunderstood what I meant by "underpaid". If a worker takes $100 in materials and builds a $1000 chair, they created $900 in value. If you pay the worker $20, then the employee was "underpaid" $880. That $880 is what is used to pay the CEO, stock buybacks, dividends, etc. (I'm not suggesting the employee necessarily deserves all of that $880 of course, but it is the value from which the worker's pay comes from)…

> they created $900 in value

No. The company had created this value. If it was just the employee, I invite the employee to try quitting and creating this value without the company. It is bound to fail.

The rest is invalidated by this faulty assumption in the beginning.

> Fine

I can't say I read 100% of this. But it seems to show: - Unions claim to be beneficial. What a surprise - U.S. Democratic party claims unions, who give them a lot of money are beneficial. Another surprise! - Some authors rely on correlation to claim causation. Good luck.

> Please show me some sources that show unions hurt employees.

Have a look at your own links, for instance the last one. Reduced competitiveness of the business is bad for employees. Reduced income inequality is bad for everyone who is willing to work hard. Massive corruption. Waste of money and resources on nonproductive activities. Difficulties firing people who don't perform. Do I need to go on?

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