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Bill to ban hidden fees in California signed into law

oag.ca.gov

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Re: Bill to ban hidden fees in California signed into law

#291

Post by astrange »

tzs wrote: post #231
kelnos wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That only makes sense for an online store that's going to ship you something, in which case asking for the destination ZIP code up front solves that problem. For brick-and-mortar stores, the store can quite easily calculate the final price of an item on its own. Sales taxes do change on occasion, but likely less often than the pricing of the items themselves do, so there's no added burden in having to update them due…

> That only makes sense for an online store that's going to ship you something, in which case asking for the destination ZIP code up front solves that problem Tax boundaries do not follow zip code boundaries. To actually find the right tax rate you need the full address, including suite or apartment number because there are cases where a tax boundary runs between different suites at the same street address. Also this…

> Tax boundaries do not follow zip code boundaries.

Zip codes represent mail routes, so they're not actually polygons but a set of points (mailboxes), so they don't really even have boundaries.

The Census Bureau has polygons made from those points, but they're not official.

Re: Bill to ban hidden fees in California signed into law

#292

Post by dragonwriter »

astrange wrote: post #279
tacocataco wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that the same bill that would have decriminalized psychedelic mushrooms? Good thing California uses First Past the Post voting, making a two party system a inevitably. Must be cheaper to purchase the government for the 1%.

Newsom is the same party as the legislative supermajority. This is a very bad way to analyze politics. Politicians actually believe in the things they're doing.

> Newsom is the same party as the legislative supermajority.

FPTP is a major part of the reason why there can be a wide disparity in position on currently salient issues between a legislative supermajority and a governor of the same party, since it is why we have ridiculously “big tent” parties.

Re: Bill to ban hidden fees in California signed into law

#293

Post by WalterBright »

initplus wrote: post #247
beachy wrote: post #238

I don't quite see how an overdraft fee (one of the examples given) is a junk fee - it costs the bank real money to cover the loan they are effectively giving you when you are in overdraft.

In the recent past, US banks were found to have specifically designed software to calculate how to best re-order customer transactions to maximise overdraft fees. Banks also generally make it hard/impossible to opt out of overdraft, something that would probably be preferable to many customers. Overdraft fees are a huge source of income these days.

When they'd do the reordering to me, I'd go visit the bank manager and point out how many years I'd been a loyal customer. Then she'd fix it.

Re: Bill to ban hidden fees in California signed into law

#294

Post by astrange »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #201
guappa wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need the address, you just need to know in which city they live, AT MOST. Taxes don't change every street.

> Taxes don't change every street Ha. Oh boy. I remember when an engineer at a POS system start-up said something similar. It's like when someone decides they're going to roll their own time zone calculation. In case you're curious, yes, two people in the same city can be in different counties, different school districts, different water boards, et cetera . Each of those typically has taxing authority. And this is be…

Part of Valley Fair Mall in San Jose is actually in a different city (Santa Clara). Which I believe currently has a different minimum wage, and the stores in the rest of the mall don't price match it.

Also, Apple Park is in Cupertino the city but not the school district.

Re: Bill to ban hidden fees in California signed into law

#295

Post by j-bos »

WalterBright wrote: post #293
initplus wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the recent past, US banks were found to have specifically designed software to calculate how to best re-order customer transactions to maximise overdraft fees. Banks also generally make it hard/impossible to opt out of overdraft, something that would probably be preferable to many customers. Overdraft fees are a huge source of income these days.

When they'd do the reordering to me, I'd go visit the bank manager and point out how many years I'd been a loyal customer. Then she'd fix it.

That's great, and sad that such a thing would be necessary.

Re: Bill to ban hidden fees in California signed into law

#296

Post by astrange »

MagerValp wrote: post #180
ffgjgf1 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be somewhat complicated when every town has a different tax rate.

If they can calculate it at the cash register, they can most certainly calculate it when putting up price tags.

Some people shopping at the store don't have to pay sales tax.

Re: Bill to ban hidden fees in California signed into law

#297

Post by astrange »

stuckkeys wrote: post #275
fshbbdssbbgdd wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a bank covers an overdraft, then the customer doesn’t have the money to pay it back, where does the money come from? Whose balance sheet if not the bank’s?

Not their money that is for sure haha

It certainly does come from their money. When a bank goes bust, all the owners of the bank also go bust. The FDIC doesn't protect /them/.

Re: Bill to ban hidden fees in California signed into law

#298

Post by Twirrim »

tzs wrote: post #234
parineum wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the tax on $5?

Depends on your location. If you are somewhere with a 5% sales tax for example, it would be $0.25. If you don't want to have to know the sales tax for your location, I believe the highest sales tax in the US is under 11% so just give the kid $5.55.

What's the tax on the individual items in question, also, because it's all variable based on what you're buying, what city you're in etc.

Pretty much everywhere else I've travelled in the world, the price on the shelf is the price you pay, even when tax changes based on what something is classified as (to whit that fun legal case of "is a jaffa cake a cake or a biscuit").

For some absolutely bizarre self-hating reason, the US has decided that, no, your experience should be "Oh wait, now I've got to go and add some seemingly random sales tax that I can't likely predict in advance, and won't know until I've rung everything up".

Re: Bill to ban hidden fees in California signed into law

#299

Post by hot_gril »

ajkjk wrote: post #277
fshbbdssbbgdd wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a bank covers an overdraft, then the customer doesn’t have the money to pay it back, where does the money come from? Whose balance sheet if not the bank’s?

That is already how it works. The fee doesn't change their ability to get money back whatsoever. The fee just punishes the person who screwed up more than they're already punished by being broke.

It's a loan until the customer pays it back, and loans cost money to cover. Except the overdraft fee is usually some insane % interest, to the point where nobody would take that loan unless it were by accident... So in short, it's a scam.

Re: Bill to ban hidden fees in California signed into law

#300

Post by astrange »

dragonwriter wrote: post #292
astrange wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Newsom is the same party as the legislative supermajority. This is a very bad way to analyze politics. Politicians actually believe in the things they're doing.

> Newsom is the same party as the legislative supermajority. FPTP is a major part of the reason why there can be a wide disparity in position on currently salient issues between a legislative supermajority and a governor of the same party, since it is why we have ridiculously “big tent” parties.

Most of the things in the US people blame on FPTP are caused by primary elections, and California doesn't use the usual primary system because it has jungle primaries.

And IRV for local elections, but you don't see micro-parties in SF.

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