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Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

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Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#291

Post by rayiner »

Cushman wrote: post #282
rayiner wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The jokes I mentioned are funny because it alludes to men being rapists and child molesters. E.g. the joke about me abusing my girlfriend wouldn't be funny if there wasn't the stereotype of men as abusers.

I get that, but I don't think you see the distinction I'm making, and it's pretty important. The defining characteristic of privilege is not necessarily that you are judged more favorably, but that you are judged on the basis of your behavior, rather than on the basis of your group membership. The situations you point out are about mocking behavior , not groups. Your friend said something about a young girl, so you m…

> The defining characteristic of privilege is not necessarily that you are judged more favorably, but that you are judged on the basis of your behavior, rather than on the basis of your group membership.

That's a good point.

> The situations you point out are about mocking behavior, not groups. Your friend said something about a young girl, so you make fun of him for being a pedophile. Your girlfriend happens to have a black eye, so you get jokingly accused of abusing her.

I think there are elements of both. For example, if a female friend had said something about Harry, it wouldn't have the same impact, humor-wise, to imply she was a pedophile. The joke depends heavily on making the connection between innocuous individual behavior and the stereotypical behavior of the group. I suppose the equivalent for women would be "that time of the month" jokes. They're usually making fun of an individual, but rely on connecting individual behavior to the stereotypical behavior of the group.

That said, I think there is a spectrum of purity in such jokes. "Duke guys are rapists" jokes, for example, focus less on individual behavior and more on group membership, at two levels (Duke student, man).

Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#292

Post by mindslight »

losvedir wrote: post #32

Huh, it had never occurred to me that some women would be offended by that joke. In my mind, it was sometimes somewhat amusing because it turns the statement your friend just made into one about a penis. I was going to say that now I'll be on the lookout for statement about clams, things that are wet, and so on, in order to bust out a TWHS, but it seems to me that it could be construed as just as offensive to women,…

"omg i'm offended ur heteronormative comment its fucking disgusting take down now"

Seriously, after seeing Basho Troll raise such hell last week, I've been quite unsympathetic to anyone who might seem like they're working themselves up to win 15 minutes of fame from the PC flash mob.

But this bot is an awesome hack, and exactly the kind of thing people need to do to empower themselves in the face of quiescent low-level offensiveness. It fights the battle in the lighthearted realm of wits, and like all games of wit, whomever caves to forceful methods (say crying to management about too many bots) loses by default.

Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#293

Post by [deleted] »

losvedir wrote: post #32

Huh, it had never occurred to me that some women would be offended by that joke. In my mind, it was sometimes somewhat amusing because it turns the statement your friend just made into one about a penis. I was going to say that now I'll be on the lookout for statement about clams, things that are wet, and so on, in order to bust out a TWHS, but it seems to me that it could be construed as just as offensive to women,…

[deleted]

Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#294

Post by [deleted] »

losvedir wrote: post #32

Huh, it had never occurred to me that some women would be offended by that joke. In my mind, it was sometimes somewhat amusing because it turns the statement your friend just made into one about a penis. I was going to say that now I'll be on the lookout for statement about clams, things that are wet, and so on, in order to bust out a TWHS, but it seems to me that it could be construed as just as offensive to women,…

[deleted]

Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#295

Post by shallowwater »

spindritf wrote: post #242
unalone wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet another common trope in gender discussions is this idea that people shouldn't complain about sexism because there are more important things to worry about. We are complex machines that are capable of worrying about multiple cultural issues at a time. This is an issue. If there are things you'd rather us focus on, write a blog post, start a thread, make something. Don't try and derail this one, because it's releva…

> Yet another common trope in gender discussions is this idea that people shouldn't complain about sexism because there are more important things to worry about. But Batista is complaining about (what he at least suggests to be) sexism, just in another area with more serious consequences.

More serious to who? Sometimes it's the little things that hit the worst.

Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#296

Post by jasonlotito »

Lockyy wrote: post #247
batista wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Your deciding what is and isn't important for women to care about is a perfect example of privilege. What privilege exactly? The privilege of sharing my opinion on HN and getting down-voted for it? I thought "privilege" was a concept related to power, what happened to that notion? Women, like men, also care about BS. Non-issues, stupid issues, moral non-issues, religious hard-lines, the latest celeb gossip, some fad…

One thing that bothers me about any and all up-vote/down-vote systems is exactly what has happened to Batista. He expresses an opinion that is contrary to what other people are saying and he gets down-voted into oblivion. This just feeds into the creation of a culture bubble and never lets anyone in the communities views get challenged. As a side note, I would like to clarify that my view on the issue is: A) Not rele…

> He expresses an opinion that is contrary to what other people are saying and he gets down-voted into oblivion.

He's being downvoted not because of his opinion, but because of the way he chose to present it. And, he's whining about downvotes. Read what he's writing. It's downright rude.

> I'll be down-voted myself anyway for even daring to defend someone’s right to express their opinion however.

No, and suggesting such is fairly dramatic. However, the fact that you spend 2 paragraphs on the "plight" of your posts' voting trend is pointless.

> So god damn it learn to argue with people properly instead of just trying to silence them.

Learn to discuss matters like an adult, and you won't have this issue.

> Also, down-voting people as you disagree with them verbally is like gagging them whilst you debate them.

IIRC, your vote doesn't count if the person is responding to you, or you are replying to them. So, enhance your calm.

Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#297

Post by wpietri »

agateform wrote: post #229
calibraxis wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a hard time imagining anyone here seriously saying, "Whether or not it's racism related is irrelevant." But I agree that men generally don't mind Bob with his hourly cracks about women (and maybe gays). That's why men swear up and down that they've never seen sexism in their workplaces. Because we simply can't see it. (And our society is sexist, so sexism is kind of like air.) Hard to imagine that silly ol' Bo…

>But I agree that men generally don't mind Bob with his hourly cracks about women (and maybe gays). I'm male and certainly mind very much! I tend to find people that make cracks about woman not very smart. I also can't stand misandry which goes completely unnoticed by society. >That's why men swear up and down that they've never seen sexism in their workplaces. Because we simply can't see it. (And our society is sexi…

I strongly disagree that the notion of patriarchy is inherently biased. It's a reasonably neutral description of a social system. For example, the Patriarch of Constantinople apparently likes the term: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriarch_of_Constantinople

Also, patriarchy doesn't imply that all men have incredible power, any more than institutionalized slavery meant that all white people had incredible power. Patriarchy also misuses men who step outside their role in the system, in the same way that white anti-slavery and anti-segregation activists were treated poorly.

It's true that critique of feminism is not necessarily anti-woman. Many feminists sometimes critique parts of feminism. However, when some guy turns up and turns a discussion of an actual woman's actual bad experience into a discussion of how oppressed he is by feminism, I'm still going to make some assumptions.

Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#298

Post by wpietri »

CompiledCode wrote: post #43
rmc wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, ads (etc.) that portray people as bad based on their gender are wrong. However men are still in an advantageous position. widespread anti-male laws They are small in number compared to the widespread anti-female laws and customs.

Can you give an example? In almost all states, if the wife gets pregnant by another man, the man is still on the hook for child support for the next 18+ years... even if she divorces him and marries her lover. I can't think of an equivalent anti-female law with such devastating long-term impact on the woman. I know this message might be off tangent for the HN board. But if we're discussing anti-female sexist culture…

Are you seriously saying that it's anti-male to expect parents to support their children until the children are adults?

Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#299

Post by [deleted] »

CompiledCode wrote: post #43
rmc wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, ads (etc.) that portray people as bad based on their gender are wrong. However men are still in an advantageous position. widespread anti-male laws They are small in number compared to the widespread anti-female laws and customs.

Can you give an example? In almost all states, if the wife gets pregnant by another man, the man is still on the hook for child support for the next 18+ years... even if she divorces him and marries her lover. I can't think of an equivalent anti-female law with such devastating long-term impact on the woman. I know this message might be off tangent for the HN board. But if we're discussing anti-female sexist culture…

[deleted]
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