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Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

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Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#291

Post by ffgjgf1 »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #255
ceejayoz wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were plenty capable. They didn’t want to.

If the government is enforcing the law, they can't do that because it has been illegal for a thousand years. If the government isn't enforcing the law, what good is a new law for them to not enforce?

They were enforcing some laws and doing so selectively.

Striking workers were usually on the wrong side of the law though because they were using coercion and force to make every worker to participate in strikes (they could hardly work any other way without laws restricting “right to work”)

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#292

Post by ffgjgf1 »

dcow wrote: post #37
aaomidi wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Removing the availability of cheap labor by providing more worker rights, and less/no criminalization of undocumented immigrants alongside an h1b reform would do wonders for the general health of this society.

Nobody is against cheap workers paying taxes. They’re against undocumented workers getting paid under the table and unfairly competing with documented workers that have to pay taxes and thus are more expensive. Gotta solve the documentation problem one way or another.

Paradoxically there is probably no other developed country where finding work as an un undocumented illegal immigrant is easier than in the US. While immigration laws there are very strict by western standards.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#294

Post by aaomidi »

bitcharmer wrote: post #280
rayiner wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, so how long does someone have to be in the country illegally before they gain citizenship?

Observing public discourse regarding illegal immigration offers great insight into how the Overtone window works and how it can be pushed in any direction by elite-owned media. What is essentially illegal is now being called undocumented. It blows my mind. I had to go over a lot of hoops to be allowed to move to and work in Switzerland. It's the right of the host to set the rules and enforce them. If you don't intend…

Because being “undocumented” isn’t actually “illegal”.

Heck undocumented is a bad term too on its own but for other reasons.

Being in the US without a right to be in it, is a civil matter. Not criminal. It hasn’t been a criminal matter, and there are actually proponents of making it a criminal matter because then these folks would get actual representation in court.

Second, even if being in the US without the right to be in it becomes a criminal matter, you are still innocent until proven guilty. There are thousands of people who may not be able to produce evidence that they have a right to live in the US.

What Switzerland does has no place in this discussion either.

Anyway now that you know illegal is a factually wrong term, are you going to stop using it?

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#295

Post by bastawhiz »

mhb wrote: post #216
bastawhiz wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't say "I'm not using a dishwasher anymore" I figure out how to get the dishwasher that's in my kitchen fixed.

Fine. So advocate for fixing OSHA instead of revamping the entire health care system.

It's almost as if we should do both!

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#296

Post by rayiner »

aaomidi wrote: post #294
bitcharmer wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Observing public discourse regarding illegal immigration offers great insight into how the Overtone window works and how it can be pushed in any direction by elite-owned media. What is essentially illegal is now being called undocumented. It blows my mind. I had to go over a lot of hoops to be allowed to move to and work in Switzerland. It's the right of the host to set the rules and enforce them. If you don't intend…

Because being “undocumented” isn’t actually “illegal”. Heck undocumented is a bad term too on its own but for other reasons. Being in the US without a right to be in it, is a civil matter. Not criminal. It hasn’t been a criminal matter, and there are actually proponents of making it a criminal matter because then these folks would get actual representation in court. Second, even if being in the US without the right t…

The word “illegal” applies to both civil and criminal matters. The presumption of innocence doesn’t apply to civil matters. More importantly, labels generally refer to actual facts. You can talk in general about “speeders” or “shoplifters” though obviously the police would have to prove any individual person accused of those things was in fact doing so.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#297

Post by bitcharmer »

aaomidi wrote: post #294
bitcharmer wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Observing public discourse regarding illegal immigration offers great insight into how the Overtone window works and how it can be pushed in any direction by elite-owned media. What is essentially illegal is now being called undocumented. It blows my mind. I had to go over a lot of hoops to be allowed to move to and work in Switzerland. It's the right of the host to set the rules and enforce them. If you don't intend…

Because being “undocumented” isn’t actually “illegal”. Heck undocumented is a bad term too on its own but for other reasons. Being in the US without a right to be in it, is a civil matter. Not criminal. It hasn’t been a criminal matter, and there are actually proponents of making it a criminal matter because then these folks would get actual representation in court. Second, even if being in the US without the right t…

> What Switzerland does has no place in this discussion either.

Why?

I'm from EU; most countries here will require you to go through some legal process to become eligible to live and work there if you're from outside of EU. This is absolutely normal and expected.

Your argumentation is not only wrong, it would be impossible to maintain peace if crossing the border without any authorization was allowed. Can you imagine the number of Russian spies and saboteurs Poland would have to deal with if the borders were just open to everybody? It would be lunacy to allow that.

> Anyway now that you know illegal is a factually wrong term, are you going to stop using it?

It's not factually wrong. In most places in the world it's literally illegal to cross the border without a visa or other permit. You will get detained and expelled for doing that; and for a good reason.

That you might not like it and prefer to call it some other term doesn't change anything.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#298

Post by ddd00001 »

aaomidi wrote: post #294
bitcharmer wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Observing public discourse regarding illegal immigration offers great insight into how the Overtone window works and how it can be pushed in any direction by elite-owned media. What is essentially illegal is now being called undocumented. It blows my mind. I had to go over a lot of hoops to be allowed to move to and work in Switzerland. It's the right of the host to set the rules and enforce them. If you don't intend…

Because being “undocumented” isn’t actually “illegal”. Heck undocumented is a bad term too on its own but for other reasons. Being in the US without a right to be in it, is a civil matter. Not criminal. It hasn’t been a criminal matter, and there are actually proponents of making it a criminal matter because then these folks would get actual representation in court. Second, even if being in the US without the right t…

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Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#299

Post by aaomidi »

rayiner wrote: post #220
aaomidi wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Removing the availability of cheap labor by providing more worker rights, and less/no criminalization of undocumented immigrants alongside an h1b reform would do wonders for the general health of this society.

How are you going to have “more worker rights” when your workforce is desperate, poorly educated immigrants who come from countries with no labor or workplace safety protections? Counter cutting is a custom business—these aren’t mega corps you can easily regulate. Did you know that this was even a problem until you read this article? Do you think do gooders can be everywhere to observe this sort of thing and bring it…

You give those immigrants legal protections.

Also you pass laws that support striking workers with UI. There are effective ways to increase the strength of the working class.

Anti trust action is another huge one.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#300

Post by ddd00001 »

aaomidi wrote: post #294
bitcharmer wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Observing public discourse regarding illegal immigration offers great insight into how the Overtone window works and how it can be pushed in any direction by elite-owned media. What is essentially illegal is now being called undocumented. It blows my mind. I had to go over a lot of hoops to be allowed to move to and work in Switzerland. It's the right of the host to set the rules and enforce them. If you don't intend…

Because being “undocumented” isn’t actually “illegal”. Heck undocumented is a bad term too on its own but for other reasons. Being in the US without a right to be in it, is a civil matter. Not criminal. It hasn’t been a criminal matter, and there are actually proponents of making it a criminal matter because then these folks would get actual representation in court. Second, even if being in the US without the right t…

[dead]
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