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Prisoners of Google Android development

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Re: Prisoners of Google Android development

#291

Post by astrange »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #98
IshKebab wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's just that most users really have separated in their minds (not surprising due to history) that apps come from app stores, and the browser is used for websites. Right, because for a very long time (and maybe still) PWAs have been much closer to terrible websites than good apps. They generally don't have the same UX properties as real apps. Remember when the iPhone first came out and web apps were the only optio…

> And if it's just a web site, why do you need to "install" it? A link is surely sufficient? The point is that there are apps that can pretty much be built entirely using web technologies as PWAs, but in doing so they are no longer "just web sites" and they need functionality of installed apps, like notifications. For example, most banking apps on Android could be entirely rewritten as PWAs, but they'd need to make u…

I find bank apps to be the least flexible about notifications; there's no way to get them to use app notifications for a lot of things they insist on using email and/or SMS for.

The last thing being the worst as SMS 2FA is so insecure, but SMS of your bank deposits isn't much better.

Re: Prisoners of Google Android development

#292

Post by jarm0 »

scarface_74 wrote: post #184
jarm0 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually nowadays it's not that bad anymore. Android browser itself offers installable PWA and there is an event called beforeinstallprompt event ( https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Window/befo... ), which can be used to perform PWA installation on user interaction. Of course it's not supported in every browser. iOS is more difficult since user needs to understand that "saving to home screen" is same a…

> and there's no way to trigger it programmatically or help user in any other way than with visual illustrations. It literally took a two second Google search https://web.dev/web-share/

Not sure this can be used to "save to home screen" e.g. trigger PWA installation flow like on Android.

Re: Prisoners of Google Android development

#293

Post by SillyUsername »

"I don't know about you, but that doesn't sound professional way to solve any problems."

By unprofessional, is he talking about his failure to test a build intended to run on the latest Android devices, on the latest Android version here?

If not, I don't understand the problem, one shouldn't expect others to prioritise reviewing their work especially as a build already had attention within 24 hours (initial review).

I hope he took this as a lesson learned to adequately test production code for an environment he really has no deployment control of or final QA sign off.

Re: Prisoners of Google Android development

#295

Post by jarm0 »

lawgimenez wrote: post #232
binkHN wrote: post #34

While I concur with the author on the challenges of Android development, the author made two major mistakes. One, he didn't test his app on the latest version of Android. This a very major mistake and the reason why we keep 11 virtual machines around with all the versions of Android that our app is supported on. Two, when you release an app on Google Play, you never, never, never deploy the app to 100% of your user b…

This is my same sentiment, author has been too dramatic with the blog title. Updating from 30 to 33 SDK is just a disaster waiting to happen. In the mobile world that is just too long.

But this is also kind of a problem created by Google - why force from 30 to 33 and not force from 30 to 31, then 31 to 32 etc? Gradual API level upgrades would make more sense in my world and probably would be less risky for every party.

Re: Prisoners of Google Android development

#296

Post by jarm0 »

lawgimenez wrote: post #235
jarm0 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm the OP and wanted to clarify in case you missed some points - it is a legacy application which does not have any active dev teams on it and needs only developers attention when Google says so and as mentioned by multiple other commenters here the first time I got that e-mail from Google, was at 18th of August. I would not agree that I have been lazy, but instead trying to solve this problem in the time-constraint…

This deadline had been sent around last year. I am not sure if you’re bullshitting your way out of this or something.

Double-checked - no e-mails prior 18th of August from "Google Play Console". Also, double-checked "Google Play Console" (even under "Archived messages") - first message about deprecation I see is from 17th of August (a day before e-mail). Even if there were something a year ago, then 3 month, 1 month followup would make sense instead of 2-3 week reminder.

Maybe it's possible that different roles in "Google Play Console" will receive different type of messages at different time? I'm not an admin for that app and it's possible that someone else has gotten prior warnings, but might have ignored these, because usually they are not with technical background.

Re: Prisoners of Google Android development

#297

Post by harshitaneja »

streptomycin wrote: post #107
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, at least on the Android side of things (Apple has long been hostile to PWAs). Installing a PWA from a website is trivially easy on Android, it's just that most users really have separated in their minds (not surprising due to history) that apps come from app stores, and the browser is used for websites. Also, Google has made in much easier in recent years to submit plain PWAs to the Play Store: https://yo…

I have some PWAs in the Play Store via that method. I also got this same Android API update email and had to jump through various hoops to update them all. I wish I could list an actual PWA (like a URL to a website) in the Play Store and then never have to worry about Android API version updates, since I'm literally not using any Android-specific features.

Couldn't this be automated as a github action and run on a fixed schedule or triggered by policy update email?

Re: Prisoners of Google Android development

#298

Post by carstenhag »

withinboredom wrote: post #177
izacus wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Play has raised it's tarter API requirements several years now and repeatedly warns a full year ahead of next change. If you never heard of it you've been deliberately playing dumb.

In my case, I was hired to work on an update to a legacy app ~8 months ago. So this is my first round of bs. Been writing software for 20 years and I’ve never seen this before… I wouldn’t consider it playing dumb, I’ve just never had cause to care or receive an email like this.

Well, that's just how the Play Store and App Store work. As an android dev it's really a regular thing you can basically plan in each year.

Re: Prisoners of Google Android development

#300

Post by carstenhag »

foobarbazetc wrote: post #187
carstenhag wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have compassion with you, some of my private apps were also affected. But we were being told this deadline for many months now. It was clear that at some point they would show it more in your face. I also disliked the way it was formulated, also, even if everything was fine in production, it complained when testing versions didn't comply (doesn't make sense). Also, it was always only about pushing new updates (it's…

They only sent the “you’re being delisted if you don’t do this” email like a week ago.

But then you were using an even older targetSdkVersion anyway. See this image from https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answ...: https://storage.googleapis.com/support-kms-prod/giq7ZW7jcnFV...

> Apps with a target level of Android 11 (API level 30)* or lower will not be available to new users running the Android OS higher than apps’ target API after August 31, 2023. >Apps with a target level of Android 10 (API level 29) or lower have not been available to new users running the Android OS higher than apps’ target API after November 1, 2022, or May 1, 2023, if your app had an extension.

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