Live data from Hacker News

Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

dynomight.net

291–300 of 386 posts

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like if something doesn’t affect you personally, you don’t have any overriding sense of fairness regarding what’s clearly a separate academic and career track for elites.

That’s right. I live my life only, and will never live another life. My energy is applied to my life, family, friends, community in the present and the fact someone else’s life is easier than mine doesn’t bother me much. There are plenty of things I think are unfair or unjust, and the existence of Harvard is so far down that list it’s not even funny. War, poverty, the destruction of the environment, racism, sexism, a…

> That’s right. I live my life only, and will never live another life. My energy is applied to my life, family, friends, community in the present and the fact someone else’s life is easier than mine doesn’t bother me much.

Yes, ignorance is bliss.

> There are plenty of things I think are unfair or unjust, and the existence of Harvard is so far down that list it’s not even funny. War, poverty, the destruction of the environment, racism, sexism, and many other things that are absolute negatives for people bother me more than a positive someone else has.

What if the same mechanisms that cause the destruction of the environment/poverty/racism/sexism/etc. negatives are the same mechanisms that allow an institution like Harvard to exist? Do you think those who combat poverty/racism/sexism don't see them as an overarching socio-political problems that permeate all parts of our society? Harvard does not exist in a vacuum.

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a typical "let's be all equally poor/bad" argument. It’s not, and I think your view ignores a really important fact about our society. Ownership of wealth in America is relatively diffuse. The top 1% owns only 32% of the wealth. And even the top 1%, which starts at about $12 million net worth, covers a lot of people who aren’t exactly the ownership class. Much of the power in society is therefore held by a…

> Ownership of wealth in America is relatively diffuse. The top 1% owns only 32% of the wealth. "Relatively"? According to what metric? I think the US has one of the world's highest Gini coefficients, at least among Western countries. "Only"? 1% owning about a third of all wealth seems remarkably skewed.

> 1% owning about a third of all wealth seems remarkably skewed.

This isn’t that interesting unless you can pair it with numbers showing how the remainder is distributed. If the majority of people have a high quality of life, who cares how rich the 1% are unless you also want to be part of the elite?

How it actually affects people is what matters. Trying to pick some arbitrary threshold for how much wealth some subset of the population should have leads to endless bikeshedding.

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#293
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, but it's a pretty big indicator, and apparently justified in being so because the people at top schools are just that much better than people like me.

I think you're literally the only person on this thread making statements like that.

I don't think so? I think I'm just surfacing the implication. Perhaps I'm wrong, but it appears like the pretty clear implication of defending Harvard and elite schools is to believe that the rest of us should remain in a lower social caste, forever, and that we deserve it because of meritocracy.

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#294
post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm 27 and make ~$300k a year. When or even how can I make up for it? I'm clearly behind the people at Ivy+ schools right now. I'd like to believe this is sarcasm but it probably isn't.

It's not sarcasm. I'm told that I'm lesser because I didn't get into any top schools or "deserve" the respect they get - clearly I'm doing worse than Ivy+ folks.

I think yours is less a problem of how to keep up with the joneses and more a problem of realistically evaluating your circumstances and expectations.

Whoever is telling you that you aren’t good enough is trying to pull something over on you at this point. It works well on people that can never be satisfied.

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#295

I find the Harvard angst interesting. I’ve never once felt someone else going to Harvard impacted my life in any way whatsoever. I’ve advanced further than everyone I know that went to Harvard in my career and not once did someone wink at the Harvard guy and pass me over. I’m sure it happens, and I’m sure there are secret clubs I don’t get invited to (well the Harvard club is pretty nice and I was invited there by a…

> I’ve advanced further than everyone I know that went to Harvard in my career and not once did someone wink at the Harvard guy and pass me over.

I'm only 27 and I definitely have - basically every Harvard CS grad from the year I graduated from my state school makes at least $200k more than me a year if they're in the workforce instead of academia and has a significantly higher net worth as a result!

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#296
post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm 27 and make ~$300k a year. When or even how can I make up for it? I'm clearly behind the people at Ivy+ schools right now. I'd like to believe this is sarcasm but it probably isn't.

It's not sarcasm. I'm told that I'm lesser because I didn't get into any top schools or "deserve" the respect they get - clearly I'm doing worse than Ivy+ folks.

I have no idea who is telling you that unless it's yourself. Contrary to the impression that some people here may give you, making millions a few (or even many) years out of school is not the norm wherever you went to school. And while connections do matter to some degree among Ivy and related grads I know (and those are mostly for what many here would consider low-paid jobs in the literary industry), connections from people I've worked with at jobs have always mattered to me more or even exclusively.

As I wrote, there is pedigree in some professions/positions but I'm assuming you're not looking at clerking on the Supreme Court, working for a white shoe law firm, and maybe getting a Federal Court of Appeals seat. Nor working for McKinsey.

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#297
post #39

This is a typical "let's be all equally poor/bad" argument. Harvard is simply a private institution with excellent reputation and not a single person is required to go there or hire someone from there. Why do Harvard people "drive 20% above the speed limit"? Because selecting good people in a sea of resumes is HARD. Degrees aren't amazing proxies for productivity, but they are decent proxies. I've seen dozens of theo…

In doing that you're also buying into an exclusionary system that benefits the extravagantly wealthy.

These institutions hit a critical mass, then they get powerful alumni and have dynasty that self perpetuates. Everyone knows you don't go to college to get an education... at least not if you're trying to win the US capitalist game (which most educated people realize is their best bet), you go to college to network, and sometimes for hands on experience, which can be gained anywhere. The academic material itself is usually useless.

So what you end up with amounts to a privilege factory. Sure you also might have extra opportunities to gain wisdom from exceptional people that don't exist elsewhere, but this is quite rare, and a substantial percentage of students never see it (ie. nuggets of wisdom they couldn't get by grabbing a random engineer with knowledge of the subject).

Mostly you're just getting a chance to rub elbows with the elite. See how they function and hopefully gain some allies with power. I think it may often be true that employees from elite schools can do better. You're hiring based on pedigree, which works in many cases, but it's questionable how it impacts society.

BTW, I've also heard the opposite about ivy league employees. They tend to be entitled, unwilling to get in the trenches, and always seem to think they could be doing better. Also, I've heard lots of complaints that the personality issues tend to be worse.

P.S. I wanted to explain why I think most intelligent people eventually decide to "play the game" and go for money / power. No matter how meaningful your career, you will probably just end up doing the same thing: making the world worse, by helping your corporate overlords, only with far less money.

This is very true for almost any calling / "just cause" professions. * Police - spend most of your time ruining poor peoples lives for an injustice system * Doctors - again ruining poor peoples lives, otherwise abusing patients, and trying to prevent them from getting health care * Nurses - Pretty much the above, with less evil decisions, more thankless work, less money * Mental health / psych - Watch people slowly be bled to death by a system that cannot help you. A substantial percentage of your patients will see you as like a horrible witch poisoning them (not just the psychotic ones!). You will "help" by stripping them of rights. * Social worker - you will have all of societies problems dumped on you, overworked and make no money. You also get to play the role of cop and ruin peoples lives (people with horrific upbringings), who will now hate you. It's your job to get the drug addicted SA survivor into jail, sometimes through shady means. * Nonprofit - worse corporate politics and guilt when you realize how much money goes to perpetuating the organization instead of helping. * Engineer - no matter how brilliant you are, you will be implementing someone else's idea. You will be expendable. You will be undermined and blamed. You don't get to own anything and it's mostly thankless busywork.

Anyway THIS is why most people eventually decide that they should just maximize money/power. It would arguably be hard to decide if the work lived up to reality. When it's just as hollow and empty, yeah just go for $$$.

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#298
post #68

> You can't start a tax-exempt country club. Uh... Sure you can? This is literally section 501(c)7; private clubs in general are exempt from federal income taxation.

Country clubs have a specific business model and are definitely not exempt from federal income taxes. The Freemasons are exempt from income taxes as an organization though.

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#299

this article had so many terrible takes I don't know where to begin. the simplest refutation of the entire thing is the extensive evidence that people who are accepted to top schools, but do not attend have similar achieves as those who go. this lends credence to the idea that the top schools are simplest triaging the successful and do not create them, in general. Of course there are specific exceptions to this, such…

> the simplest refutation of the entire thing is the extensive evidence that people who are accepted to top schools, but do not attend have similar achieves as those who go.

This completely misses the point because 95% of the people that apply do not get in. Please think of the rest of us!

Re: Maybe the problem is that Harvard exists

#300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "lets all be poor" As the parent of two exceptionally-achieving children who were rejected from the "elite" colleges - I've become a lot more sympathetic to the mindset behind this line of thinking. My kids literally couldn't have done more or tried harder - since kindergarten - than they did. They both graduated valedictorian with perfect GPAs, scored in the top 99% of the SAT, did sports, did clubs, volunteered,…

It’s a similar problem to the scientific journals that extort scientists. The elite universities are not primarily selling education they’re selling prestige. In academia it’s worse because prestige is the metric for getting grants and status since the pay is bad. It’s also not great in private companies since institutional prestige is used to filter inbound interest, but it’s better because at least there are other…

Yes very much like showing up for a meeting and your defense attorney worked with the prosecutor and gets a case dropped after a conversation about golfing.
Post reply on HN