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TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

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Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#291

Post by guiriduro »

mschuster91 wrote: post #119
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's unrealistic to assume that a country of 1.4 Billion people can not catch up eventually Why? By 2100, each of Pakistan, the D.R.C. and Kenya are forecast to have larger populations than America [1]. Is it unrealistic to assume they won’t be at parity with the west in eighty years? (Note: not saying dismiss entirely. Just baselines.) China has a lot going for it in semiconductors. Demography isn’t one of them. T…

> By 2100, each of Pakistan, the D.R.C. and Kenya are forecast to have larger populations than America. Is it unrealistic to assume they won’t be at parity with the west in eighty years? Pakistan has the best chances to rise, at least assuming religious / ethnic tensions can be somewhat placated, it doesn't become a hotbed of natural disasters like last year's floods and they don't either get into open war with India…

Climate change is already having the bigger impact on Pakistan - aside from 48C Karachi, last year saw incredible flooding.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#292

Post by KingOfCoders »

croes wrote: post #154
js8 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. All the big economic success was due to state coordination and intervention, not (neo-)liberalism. Liberalism might work for a smaller country that becomes a trading hub (like Singapore), and uses low taxes as a sort of parasitic strategy; that's why it cannot be replicated by large countries. I am glad that Germany is coming to their senses and finally rejecting neoliberalism. Now if only Eurozone leadershi…

It's a perfect example of neoliberalism. The automotive industry made the mistake of cancelling their orders during Corona and were then surprised to find that the capacities were allocated elsewhere when they wanted to order again. So they whined at the government to subsidise the fab.

What about the AstraZeneca sending "best effort" vacc doses to the UK with ~100% but "best effort" the EU got ~30% of what it ordered? (sure I guess the EU will not again sign contracts that contain "best effort").

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#293

Post by baybal2 »

littlestymaar wrote: post #246
gsatic wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After what happened to hong kong, its hard to believe that.

No offense but there's no possible comparison between the two, and comparing the situations only highlight your lack of understanding of the situations: - Hong Kong belonged to China already, it just had a special status that was supposed to expire at some point, Xi “just” went ahead of schedule but there wasn't anything to stop him from doing so (no independent HK government, no army, etc) - Taiwan is a complete sta…

> Hong Kong belonged to China already, it just had a special status that was supposed to expire at some point

Hong Kong was leased to the British Crown in the perpetuity.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#294

Post by yk »

cpursley wrote: post #244
yk wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The technology is roughly 10 years behind, but in the scenario that the replacement capability becomes important is something like Trump fumbles the great power competition and US and China have a nice nuclear moment. And frankly making do with Haswell era CPUs is lamentable but as far as nuclear exchanges go not that bad.

[flagged]

And where did I write anything about Biden?

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#295

Post by sergiotapia »

If enough of these pop up Taiwan is cooked right? Is there anything Taiwan is doing to try to stop these efforts? Also in terms of the world security which is preferable:

1. Have many fabs and derisk by diversification?

2. Keep Taiwan safe and chest-bump china?

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#296

Post by croes »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #292
croes wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a perfect example of neoliberalism. The automotive industry made the mistake of cancelling their orders during Corona and were then surprised to find that the capacities were allocated elsewhere when they wanted to order again. So they whined at the government to subsidise the fab.

What about the AstraZeneca sending "best effort" vacc doses to the UK with ~100% but "best effort" the EU got ~30% of what it ordered? (sure I guess the EU will not again sign contracts that contain "best effort").

Not to mention that the AstraZeneca vaccine was developed by the Oxford university and they planned to release it with costs until the Gates foundation convinced them to sell it.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#297

Post by sergiotapia »

UncleOxidant wrote: post #269
sirius87 wrote: post #3

Wonder if the Taiwanese govt at some point will step in and block these onshoring measures as a matter of national security. If countries are less reliant on manufacturing within Taiwan, its one less reason to stand up to Beijing's one China principle.

Having so much reliance on advanced semiconductors from an island that's potentially going to be invaded by China doesn't seem like a great plan for the US and Europe. It absolutely makes sense for both the US and Europe to incentivize production in their own countries to diversify. If the fabs in Taiwan were to be damaged without building up this domestic capability we'd have a tough time defending Taiwan after a wh…

It's game theory no?

Having this beefy reliance on a small island that gives china the middle finger

-OR-

derisk the reliance on taiwan

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#298

Post by mathiasgredal »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #235
mathiasgredal wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since ASML builds/integrates the machine, is there any reason why they couldn’t just pull out the EUV laser from the machine, but keep the trumpf lasers, zeiss mirrors and everything else. Then China could just copy the “shooting tin droplets with a laser at 50khz” part.

Because then the Us would get Germany to ban Zeiss and Trumpf and even if they wouldn't, the whole "shoot lasers at tin droplets" bit is insanely difficult to replicate that Canon and Nikon dropped out of the EUV race.

They already have a light source[1] which they are collaborating with Imec to get ready for EUV, apparently within 2 years[2]. It will be interresting to see how far ASML will go to get around export restriction contracts, since there are billions to be made in chinese lithography. I didn’t know that the US had the capability the control who europeans companies choose to export their products to.

[1]: http://www.transientek.com/cpzx/jcxnmgtjgq/jzwckgy/35.html

[2]:https://thechinaproject.com/2023/08/03/beijing-pushes-china-...

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#299

Post by 55873445216111 »

baybal2 wrote: post #28
r0b1n wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The likes of Bosch/Infineon/NXP are not interested in bleeding edge fabs, they sell embedded CPUs from very old fabs they still have. So this is an advancement for them, and totally sufficient for embedded stuff.

> totally sufficient for embedded stuff. No, TSMC 22 has no eFLASH, expensive SRAM, lacking of analog capability, lacks high temperature tolerance, and is tied to multiple patterning design flow. TSMC 40 on the other hand is the last portable node, with MRAM, eFLASH, high temp, some mixed signal, RF, no MP, and everything else your soul desires.

Infineon Aurix microcontrollers on TSMC 28nm have eFlash and RRAM available as NVM. https://www.infineon.com/cms/en/about-infineon/press/market-...

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#300

Post by ajmurmann »

OO000oo wrote: post #287
mainframed wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are. Why wouldn't there be? There are a lot of minorities in Germany, which (sadly have to) accept daily racism. Thankfully, at this point violence against minorities (~800 right extremists violent crimes in 2022 in whole Germany) is not as high such that people consider moving away. And if you get a job there and this is your ticket into immigration, probably a lot of people will accept this to get German citi…

> My hope (as a West German) is that investments like this, will increase East-Germany's economy such that they are finally equal in terms of economic wealth Is this a bad joke? Is it possible that you actually don't comprehend the ramifications of eternal human labor trafficking?

> eternal human labor trafficking

What does this mean? Are there people being trafficked in eastern Germany?

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