Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The past is not true

sive.rs

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

291–300 of 362 posts

Re: The past is not true

#291

Post by macksd »

aodonnell2536 wrote: post #275
cayblood wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the profound contributions of Christianity, corroborated in other wisdom traditions, is the assertion that every single one of us ignorantly does irreparable harm to others in the course of our lifetimes. Recognizing this is the beginning of wisdom, and figuring out how to live life in light of this reality has been the driving force behind many different philosophies and religious traditions passed down over…

This is a line of thinking that really intrigues me, are there any external resources you would suggest to further read about it? Other than the Bible, of course

You Are Here by Thich Nhat Hanh explores this idea a lot. To the extent you consider Buddhist philosophy religious, it is still religious, but it is not the Bible. However the philisophy is similar enough that the author actually references both in harmony. That said it's also a very well received book among secular audiences so if you're intrigued by the idea and don't care much for the Bible, I think you'd like it.

Re: The past is not true

#292

Post by WolfeReader »

brightlancer wrote: post #259
bittercynic wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you make a mistake like this, where you owe a debt that can never be repaid, I think we need some social mechanism where you can do your best to make amends and get some measure of closure. This probably should follow you around forever, but maybe it shouldn't dominate every moment of the rest of your life.

> I think we need some social mechanism where you can do your best to make amends and get some measure of closure. It's called prison. > This probably should follow you around forever, but maybe it shouldn't dominate every moment of the rest of your life. Prison (and convictions generally) shouldn't follow folks forever because it disincentivizes rehabilitation, it incentivizes recidivism, it labels someone based upo…

>> I think we need some social mechanism where you can do your best to make amends and get some measure of closure. > It's called prison.

Please explain how prison enables someone to make amends and get a sense of closure.

Re: The past is not true

#293

Post by munificent »

Goronmon wrote: post #246
munificent wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has experienced several serious floods, this is my favorite example of imagery's ability to craft a reality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgm3_jzcNm4 Floodwaters tend to stir up a lot of dirt and mud, so the water is usually totally opaque. That makes it very hard to tell how deep it is. A lot of overhead views of flooded neighborhoods look completely disastrous, but in reality it's just a foot or t…

A couple feet of water is still disastrous though. You're insurance most likely doesn't cover it and you could be left with tens of thousands of dollars worth of damage easily.

It really depends. In my neighborhood in Louisiana, most yards sloped down to the street. So when the flood was a couple of feet at its deepest, most houses were still fully above the waterline. It's just that the streets were impassable and you needed a boat to get around.

Re: The past is not true

#294

Post by UncleMeat »

sanderjd wrote: post #248
UncleMeat wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm less denigrating the author and more encouraging people who found this idea interesting to seek out experts. I'm glad that this person is thinking about this topic. I also see a frankly huge number of absolute amateurs having their ideas about history distributed all over the world while professionals are doing everything they can to communicate effectively.

I think you're doing both things. And I applaud you for the encouragement and useful information! I also don't begrudge you your frustration about this. But I also find the "ten thousand" idea to be a useful re-framing of how to respond to this phenomenon where something seems obvious to you because you know all about it, but it's actually not obvious to most people at all. Maybe you'll find this to be a useful re-fr…

> I will push back a bit on "professionals are doing everything they can to communicate effectively". I don't think that's really true.

For personal reasons, I am very good friends with an unusually large number of history faculty. I do not agree with your assessment at all. My experience is that historians are desperately trying to communicate their expertise in the face of an increasingly hostile culture that either does not value their expertise or considers them to be propagandists. Public History in particular is having a renaissance right now and Digital History (which is often tightly associated with widespread distribution of tools and interactive systems) is comparatively well funded.

History doesn't have the same "publish or perish" model as say CS because individual journal articles don't actually provide much professional clout. You do have the publish the book (which are increasingly distributed open-access) but there is ample time for communication with laypeople (and teaching).

Re: The past is not true

#295

Post by miiiiiike »

e40 wrote: post #251
miiiiiike wrote: post #134

He did the right thing by seeking her out to apologize. The rest doesn’t hold water. “There’s a small chance that the chaos and ruin I’ve visited upon others may not be as bad as as those people made me think. Thanks, I knew my negligence/malice wasn’t that big a deal.” The worst people that I’ve ever met would love for that to be true. They’ll stab people in the back or work to damage people’s careers and when you c…

> Negative equity is a real and it compounds over time. I don't think this is always true. For me and you, yeah. For good people. But, there are a significant percentage of humans (I have no idea what the number is) where this is completely false. They can move forward in time without a scintilla of guilt or negative repercussions. I fact, for some people, it seems to be fuel for them. They enjoy it. The percentage o…

I see what you’re saying but I think we’re using the phrase “negative equity” slightly differently.

When I say negative equity I’m talking about the compounding opportunity costs of something happening to you. One missed opportunity could lead to another and another.

Re: The past is not true

#296

Post by QuadmasterXLII »

tivert wrote: post #132
zacksiri wrote: post #4

It's not that the past is not true. The past is true, what was reported is not. We know very clearly where the problem lies. The media is a lie. Headlines like "she'll never walk again" sells more than "she'll be fine".

> It's not that the past is not true. The past is true, what was reported is not. How do you know the past even exists? All you have is memory and reports, which are unreliable. You can only make the assumption that "the past is true." > We know very clearly where the problem lies. The media is a lie. You're understating that. It's not just "the media" boogeyman, it's memory and records that are the problem. They're…

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/X3HpE8tMXz4m4w6Rz/the-simple...

Re: The past is not true

#297

Post by lr4444lr »

brightlancer wrote: post #259
bittercynic wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you make a mistake like this, where you owe a debt that can never be repaid, I think we need some social mechanism where you can do your best to make amends and get some measure of closure. This probably should follow you around forever, but maybe it shouldn't dominate every moment of the rest of your life.

> I think we need some social mechanism where you can do your best to make amends and get some measure of closure. It's called prison. > This probably should follow you around forever, but maybe it shouldn't dominate every moment of the rest of your life. Prison (and convictions generally) shouldn't follow folks forever because it disincentivizes rehabilitation, it incentivizes recidivism, it labels someone based upo…

It's absolutely impossible for prison to morally absolve prisoners: most do not enter there willingly (i.e., they plead not guilty) and their entire freedom to do anything, much less make amends, is stripped away. Rehabilitation does nothing for the flesh and blood victim they're in there for hurting.

Re: The past is not true

#298

Post by benkitzelman »

miiiiiike wrote: post #134

He did the right thing by seeking her out to apologize. The rest doesn’t hold water. “There’s a small chance that the chaos and ruin I’ve visited upon others may not be as bad as as those people made me think. Thanks, I knew my negligence/malice wasn’t that big a deal.” The worst people that I’ve ever met would love for that to be true. They’ll stab people in the back or work to damage people’s careers and when you c…

Yeah... but also from the other perspective (the victim / target) - bitterness about the past is poison and for your own good, forgive.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/evolution-the-self/2...

Re: The past is not true

#300

Post by ottoludd »

amp108 wrote: post #183
metacritic12 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think misanthropes aren't being enabled by articles like the above. Many of them honestly don't care deep down about the damage they do. Others like Mark Wahlberg just "forgive themselves" for blinding a neighbor as a teen, even if their actual victim doesn't forgive them, so they can feel better about themselves mentally. https://time.com/3623630/mark-wahlberg-pardon/

I don't know what's inside Mark Wahlberg's heart, but let's suppose it's someone whom, for the sake of argument, we know truly regrets their actions: what are they supposed to do if another person doesn't forgive them?

While he did attack two men, the blinded victim actually lost his eye prior to the incident and claimed Wahlberg didn't inflict any lasting damage. Apparently Marky Mark mistakenly believed he blinded the man. Not that I'm defending him, I don't even like him.
Post reply on HN