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That Time I Posted Myself Out Of a Job

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Re: That Time I Posted Myself Out Of a Job

#291

Post by parineum »

Osmose wrote: post #247
parineum wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your livelihood isn't your job. Your livelihood is the skills you have to offer other people that can provide value to them.

To clarify, I mean more like "your ability to pay the bills on time" but more importantly I mean that the risks you incur losing your job are much higher than the risks your job incurs from firing you, typically. It's a power imbalance.

Well, the reason for this particular firing is because the risks of keeping this person employed were higher than keeping them employed. One mitigate their risk of getting fired by not being actively detrimental to their employer and even trying to contribute in a meaningful way. Being utterly replaceable is going to get you replaced.

Conversely, if you're employable, a company is always at risk of you leaving. It's not like you're an indentured servant who can be dismissed at will. The voluntary nature of employment goes both ways. I don't I want to be a part of any system where the working relationship is not bilaterally voluntary.

Re: That Time I Posted Myself Out Of a Job

#292

Post by Osmose »

King-Aaron wrote: post #255
Osmose wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't think through all the flaws but "criticism of the government is protected speech for employees" broadly seems achievable, which of course has tons of annoying details like "when is an employee speaking for a company vs for themselves, are personal twitter accounts an employee's own speech" or "what is a government entity" or "what is criticism" or "what is an allowed disciplinary response to grey areas" and s…

This wasn't even 'criticism of the government' at the end of the day, it was wholly unprofessional communication and blatantly rude. Honestly I cannot believe people are bending over backwards to support the actions of the blog author.

It pretty clearly is criticizing the DoD and it's representatives for 1. killing people (probably in a general sense) and 2. participating in and advertising themselves at a tech conference while doing so.

Is it the profanity that puts it over the line? Profanity is often how we express that a feeling is extremely strong, and in the context of criticizing the government it's a pretty time-honored tradition given the power imbalance it has.

Re: That Time I Posted Myself Out Of a Job

#293

Post by parineum »

rmetzler wrote: post #209
parineum wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I thought the same thing. Like, yeah, the guy was being thin-skinned and over reactive but publicly accusing your employer's client of war crimes should get you fired. If you're upset that your employer is dealing with these people, quit. Work for someone you don't hate.

> publicly accusing your employer's client of war crimes Where did you read this?

I don't think it's a stretch if you're accusing a member DoD of having blood on their hands to assume that the intent of that statement is that the blood is there due to unjust actions and, since the DoD primarily kills people through war like activities, that the blood that was on their hands was from some sort of unlawful, war like activity, aka, war crimes.

Re: That Time I Posted Myself Out Of a Job

#295

Post by apexalpha »

This would even be grounds for firing in the Netherlands, which has the most rigorous employee protections on the planet.

I mean in what world do you go to a conference on company time, as a representative of that company and then type "Fuck you" to one of your biggest customers?

Re: That Time I Posted Myself Out Of a Job

#296

Post by theobeers »

swarnie wrote: post #220
theobeers wrote: post #100

She was right to speak out, and her employer was within its rights to fire her. As long as she subsequently found a job at a company that comes closer to sharing her values, it sounds like a win-win.

Speak out against what exactly? Defence is one of the most vital sectors in a countries continued existence, coming just after food and water.

The screenshot of the DoD recruitment pitch from the conference set off a little "military-industrial complex alarm" in my mind. To be clear, I wouldn't have tagged the guy in a mean tweet. I would have just frowned and gone on with my day. But I think it's crucial that the voices of people like this blogger be present in tech communities.

Re: That Time I Posted Myself Out Of a Job

#297

Post by hsjqllzlfkf »

revelio wrote: post #265
jossclimb wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Engineers with unicorn / my little pony avatars is a slight red flag to me. I am as socialist as they come (I am not even American, I am Brit and a left wing), but I always try to not engage with those folks on twitter, to easy to get caught up in personal attacks if anything you say is remotely misunderstood. It can quite easily turn into a digital lynching.

[flagged]

Are anime people the same as the pronoun people? I'm aware there's an overlap but I'm not sure it's significant.

Re: That Time I Posted Myself Out Of a Job

#298

Post by TheRoque »

camillomiller wrote: post #77
King-Aaron wrote: post #18

> Being as I’m not an idiot Well, I'm afraid to say after reading this, I have to disagree. Common sense would have made me consider not posting an inflammatory tweet like that, to be perfectly honest.

Do you realize you are all reinforcing that business must come always first before personal expression? It is factual that one person was touting instruments of war, but by most comments here that’s seen as “the right” because it’s representing “business”. What you’re all saying implicitly is that the rights of a corporate employer to make money are always above the freedom to personal expression, by contract, by law…

I don't see the issue with this one. If you are working for the company in the first place, you're making an agreement to give your energy, and contribute to this company. It doesn't make much sense to willingly enroll in a company to then criticize its clients and business. The fact that they now represent this company is also quite obvious... This employee of course has the freedom to express its discontent with the company, but then the company is also free to fire this employee for not fitting the culture. If both disagree, it makes sense that they part ways in the end.

Re: That Time I Posted Myself Out Of a Job

#299

Post by Yizahi »

King-Aaron wrote: post #105
camillomiller wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you realize you are all reinforcing that business must come always first before personal expression? It is factual that one person was touting instruments of war, but by most comments here that’s seen as “the right” because it’s representing “business”. What you’re all saying implicitly is that the rights of a corporate employer to make money are always above the freedom to personal expression, by contract, by law…

If you have signed an employment contract, then it's perfectly normal to be required to restrict your personal opinions when you are representing your employer. This isn't some dystopian concept. This is how grownups behave. You are welcome to be an edgelord on your own time anonymously.

It is quite dystopian in general. We are in an early stages of a corporate dystopia all across the world. Very polite and grownup dystopia. For instance it only took 8 years for my employee to stop working with an aggressor country, responsible for killing tens of thousands in those 8 years. And they were both fulfilling contracts for customers from that country and employing contractors there. Neither me nor practically anyone else in the company could speak out against this (and like half of the contractors in the company were from the country being massacred). But we were definitely very polite and all grownup. Great for the business, yeah? :)

I'm not against capitalism, or pro some rebellion, or pro insulting people on twitter. But on the other hand I do realise that the corporate dystopia is only ever increases, because of of the immense power imbalance between individual humans and corporations.

Re: That Time I Posted Myself Out Of a Job

#300

Post by xena »

revelio wrote: post #265
jossclimb wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Engineers with unicorn / my little pony avatars is a slight red flag to me. I am as socialist as they come (I am not even American, I am Brit and a left wing), but I always try to not engage with those folks on twitter, to easy to get caught up in personal attacks if anything you say is remotely misunderstood. It can quite easily turn into a digital lynching.

[flagged]

Hi, I use pony/anime/furry avatars at work and my blog is loved on this website for its technical content and innovative use of the Socratic method. People like me exist.
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