Live data from Hacker News

French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

laquadrature.net

291–300 of 553 posts

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#291
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and is being prosecuted as passionately as self defence killings often are. Citation needed of self-defence killings im France being prosecuted passionately and unfairly.

Macron recently said he was opposed to the entire concept of self defence, after a farmer shot a burglar in his home and was subsequently charged with murder. After that remark became massively controversial he attempted to walk his statement back and claim that he just meant that he said he was against the presumption of self defence (which seems to imply he supports a presumption of guilt in self defence cases). ht…

I can corroborate (for any lurkers and onlookers) that the modern state having a monopoly on violence is an often-accepted idea.

For example, this is professor Wael Hallaq of Columbia University describing some defining characteristics of the modern state:

"there are five form-properties possessed by the modern state without which it cannot, at this point in history, be properly conceived. These are:

(1) its constitution as a historical experience that is fairly specific and local;

(2) its sovereignty and the metaphysics to which it has given rise;

(3) its legislative monopoly and the related feature of monopoly over so-called legitimate violence;

(4) its bureaucratic machinery; and

(5) its cultural- hegemonic engagement in the social order, including its production of the national subject"

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#292
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in France as well, and personally do not feel the same negativity as you. What I don't appreciate at all is our share of idiots that think that blocking the country is a proper way of protesting (see "gilets jaunes"). That is not democratic, when a minority imposes their will to the silent majority.

When they came for the protesters you did not speak out because you was not a protester... Beware when they come for you there will be no one left to speak out. ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_ )

When they came for violent people preventing other pacific people to move on with their life, nobody needed to speak because their actions were against the law.

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but the problem here is not that, it's the arguments used to build the case. They have not been any evidence of criminal activities by those people. So far, all what they have against them is "they are protective about their privacy". That's a terrible reason to arrest and maintain people in jail.

The act of going to Syria to fight on either side is a crime in itself.

Then why weren't they arrested for that instead?

I am not familiar with French law. Is that literally a crime or are you saying it as an expression?

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#294
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in France as well, and personally do not feel the same negativity as you. What I don't appreciate at all is our share of idiots that think that blocking the country is a proper way of protesting (see "gilets jaunes"). That is not democratic, when a minority imposes their will to the silent majority.

Polls showed that a large majority of French supported the Gilets Jaunes or supported the recent strikes. Foolowing your reasonning, the minority imposing their will to the silent majority is the government. Furthermore, independently to our opinion about the Gilets Jaunes, the way this government use the police on the protest can be questioning for a democracy. Even the journalist of the right Figaro newspaper prote…

> Polls showed that

The only polls that matter are elections. Apart from elections, people have the right to avoid any poll without risking any policy change.

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#295
The constitute project [1] (which I just discovered and seems like a fantastic initiative) offers a way to compare what different countries' constitutions say about citizen's right to privacy. Apparently 174 countries have some provision that is in force. France does not appear at all on this topic. Not sure if its some technical / linguistic reason.

[1] https://www.constituteproject.org/constitutions?lang=en&key=...

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#296
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First they came for the Gilets Jaunes... Actually, they came too late for the Gilets Jaunes! > it was sickening to see how much of the supposed French people's liberties and citizens rights were broken back then I agree with you, a bunch of idiots holding a whole country hostage was not at all what one would expect in a sane democracy.

That's the spirit of "he has promised us that he'll let us enjoy our assignats in peace and bring order to the country by ending the revolution", i.e. the spirit that helped Napoleon got hold of power. I think trying to end the revolution is still an ongoing thing in today's France, for better or for worse.

> trying to end the revolution is still an ongoing thing in

I don't agree. France is as wonderful as it is because revolution was successfully completed long ago.

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait for the next election in Germany. AfD has just climbed to the 2nd place with 20% of support and is still growing. Believe or not, one day you will miss someone like Orban.

The situation is a bit less dire than that thankfully. 2/3rds of AfD supporters claim to be doing it as a protest vote. And that they don't support the AfD. Just like with brexit. There's still time for an alternative before all of Europe goes in with fascism again.

[flagged]

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#298
post #237
post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> making protests of disappointment illegal everywhere the president go France is big enough. Having to avoid a few square kilometres around the president will leave you plenty of space to organize your protest.

Next law: protest as much as you want but out of sight. In your own cellar maybe? Ok that was sarcasm, but the very point of a protest is to be visible. Same with all Last Generation or such protests: if they had simply marched on some side street, nobody would talk about them today.

> the very point of a protest is to be visible.

And that's why the public space must be made available for protesters, it's part of the life of a sane democracy. Public space and free press are sufficient if you have a point that matters to other people.

But if you feel the need to hijack another event in order to get people's attention, maybe you don't have a valid point to start with?

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#300
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yesterday the French government dissolved an environmental movement (which I don't like btw), amongst the reasons stated[0] are that they leave their phones at home or switch them off, refuse to talk to the police when arrested, or even that they organize their protest over the internet. When accused of authoritarian tendencies the government usually answers "go to China or North Korea to see what a dictatorship is l…

They have not been dissolved because they left their phone at home, they have been dissolved because it was a violent organisation that was systematically attacking the police and destroying property. And given the sort of stuff they brought to their protests: swords, machettes, baseball bats, jerrycan, bricks, fireworks, petanque balls, Molotov cocktails, fire bombs, etc, it is particularly disingenuous to pretend t…

[flagged]
Post reply on HN