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Reddit is OpenAI’s moat

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Re: Reddit is OpenAI’s moat

#291

Post by whomst »

nostrademons wrote: post #62

The leaked Google memo "We have no moat, and neither does OpenAI" is instructive here: https://www.semianalysis.com/p/google-we-have-no-moat-and-ne... Original author is an ML researcher, and the crux of his argument is that most weights in a LLM are significantly overdetermined. Once you have ingested several terabytes of natural language, you know how to generate natural language. The remaining misses are facts tha…

the end game is MechanicGPT trained on the obscure phpBB/vBulletin car mechanic boards from the early 00's

Re: Reddit is OpenAI’s moat

#292

Post by lamontcg »

dan-g wrote: post #272
lamontcg wrote: post #206

> Now, hear me out. This turn of phrase almost always is followed by an argument you don't have to bother reading because it is wrong.

Did you have any actual points from the article you wanted to discuss, or call out as wrong? Or are you just communicating that you refused to read it because of the first line?

The rest of the points were adequately covered by everyone else.

Re: Reddit is OpenAI’s moat

#293

Post by matteoraso »

pixl97 wrote: post #283
tayo42 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

niches and hobbies are dominated by beginners and ideas that can't be challenged (theres a word for this, I cant remember what it is). people aren't just talking about their experience on major subs though. the opinions i run into real life can be very different then with people in the real world. the communities online are made up of the kinds of people who spend their time online, and the content you see on reddit…

>the opinions i run into real life can be very different then with people in the real world. I think you messed that sentence up, but I get what you're trying to say.... And I think it's this. The opinions you get from people 'IRL' are not apt to be as strong as the ones online, and or will run into the regency bias. For example, it's very unlikely you'll actually meet someone that has used 10 different coffee makers…

>And I think it's this. The opinions you get from people 'IRL' are not apt to be as strong as the ones online, and or will run into the regency bias.

No, I've noticed what he's talking about, and it's not the strength of the opinion, it's what the opinion is. Reddit has a moral system that's completely misaligned with real world morality, where having a child or being autistic makes you a bad person, even if you didn't do anything wrong. You can find some really weird takes on r/AITA, which ironically points out that the subreddit has a fucked up sense of morality in its highest rated post.

Re: Reddit is OpenAI’s moat

#294

Post by zdragnar »

rchaud wrote: post #114
zdragnar wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I genuinely don't understand the appeal of AI for search. The provenance of information is just as important as the resulting information for pretty much anything I search for. I almost never accept a single search result as authoritative unless I'm pretty familiar with the source. Reddit in particular seems like a terrible set of training data. Pretty much any opinion is going to have a counter-opinion somewhere in…

> I genuinely don't understand the appeal of AI for search. The provenance of information is just as important as the resulting information for pretty much anything I search for. Search requires work on the part of the user to distinguish between good links and bad. AI is an oracle just tells you what you're looking for. Now you and I might think this is a terrible way to evaluate the veracity of information. But thi…

It sounds like we are dooming an entire generation by catering to a maladaption of technology-addiction induced ADD.

Re: Reddit is OpenAI’s moat

#295

Post by [deleted] »

chrismarlow9 wrote: post #163
duxup wrote: post #64

> There is no question that Reddit is extremely valuable as training data. How often do you append “reddit” to your searches? Is it? When I worked in networking, and later web dev work I found Reddit to be a TERRIBLE place for Q & A type situations. Answers on Reddit are often skewed by truthy answers from people with limited perspective in the industry who are surprisingly sort of militant about a given topic. For e…

My experience in the past 5-10 years on Reddit is: - the voting system is about what people want the truth to be, not the truth. - the users can be very easily gamed in comments to vote one way or another just by the initial voting being negative or positive (aka most just vote with the trend) - the opinions all come from a bias of urban and major metro area people. It's painfully obvious they don't understand any mi…

[deleted]

Re: Reddit is OpenAI’s moat

#296

Post by marcosdumay »

marcosdumay wrote: post #269
mguerville wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A niche provider that doesn't do generative AI very well but does "AI powered search with citations" is perplexity.ai I've used for rather obscure queries and liked the summary the AI wrote as well as the links to dive deeper. I imagine that's what AI search will look like across all providers before long.

That site looks incredibly good. I threw in a question Wikipedia does kinda answer but leaves a lot of details off, and it enumerated a set of possible answers, with my favored option linking into a forum where it looks like less than a dozen people post, but with people that tried all variations of it and know all of the details. DDG and Google would never show me that site (yeah, I've tried).

Just to add, that forum has better answers than the ones GPT created directly on the search engine. If it was a "consult the Oracle" interface instead of a search engine, it wouldn't be useful at all.

Re: Reddit is OpenAI’s moat

#297

Post by civilitty »

dmazin wrote: post #195
civilitty wrote: post #73

I feel like I’m taking crazy pills: Reddit is on CommonCrawl, which means its all available without API access, permanently from AWS’s CDN. These discussions are completely moot because the path of least resistance was already available and in use by OpenAI

I need to stress this more obviously in the article, but the goal is to protect Reddit's future data.

Why would Reddit block CommonCrawl's access to future data?

Re: Reddit is OpenAI’s moat

#298

Post by dan-g »

lamontcg wrote: post #292
dan-g wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you have any actual points from the article you wanted to discuss, or call out as wrong? Or are you just communicating that you refused to read it because of the first line?

The rest of the points were adequately covered by everyone else.

Which is my point, this didn’t add anything substantive to the discussion. From the commenting guidelines:

> Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.

Re: Reddit is OpenAI’s moat

#299

Post by krainboltgreene »

tomrod wrote: post #177
whywhywhywhy wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I genuinely don't understand the appeal of AI for search If you're good at googling the flow is: Ask the question > Clock which result isnt spam and click it > Figure out how to dismiss the cookies gate without accepting the cookies > Dismiss the google login box > Dismiss the popover pushing you to install an app > Scroll the page or ctrl+F to find the answer With ChatGPT it's just type your question and your answ…

It lies like crazy on surprising things. Database parameters for an enterprise provider, for example, I've seen hallucination in 5% of cases. That's _bad_ when its taken as authoritative.

None of the results are surprising if you simply read what OpenAI writes about their own machine. It's an autocomplete engine.

Re: Reddit is OpenAI’s moat

#300

Post by 93po »

dang wrote: post #252
dmazin wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look, I just don’t think you should editorialize without making it clear. Why is the claim controversial, for example? Edit: I guess we went too deep in the thread, so we're resorting to edits. that was a rhetorical question. It's sort of like the Twitter community notes feature: making the edit, and its reason clear, builds trust. Otherwise, you just look like you're doing something shady (given that, again, the peo…

I wasn't the mod who added the question mark, but I'd guess it's because it makes a grand and speculative claim about the two most hyped topics of recent months. Nothing wrong with that, but in an HN context it generally makes for shallower and hotter discussion, and that is not the best fit for a site like HN which is trying to go deeper. (Note that I said trying, not succeeding.) The question mark is one device we…

I appreciate everything you and the mods do here. Enough so that I feel my past behavior on HN has been less than ideal from time to time and I am incentivized to improve it because I respect what you're trying to do here.

However, the staff at HN are doing themselves a disservice and legitimizing criticism with this sort of action. If you feel this content is grand and speculative then downvote it or flag it like anyone else. If you feel it's actively damaging or strongly against the ethos of HN then delete it or sticky a comment at the top of the discussion to give your position and encourage people to flag/downvote.

The author makes a fair observation and does speculate as part of their writing, but speculation happens all the time on HN.

Reddit can be a moat for OpenAI even if the intention wasn't deliberately made.

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