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Hacking my “smart” toothbrush

kuenzi.dev

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Re: Hacking my “smart” toothbrush

#291

Post by fire »

gwbas1c wrote: post #176
ubermonkey wrote: post #173

All I know is that I absolutely never, ever, ever want my toothbrush to be "smart." We need to stop putting firmware in things that don't need firmware. Not everything needs a chip or intelligence. The rampant abuse of this kind of thing leads to shitty products and an uptick in electronic waste.

I bought one of these toothbrushes almost two years ago. It really makes a difference: - The connection to my phone helps coach me in making sure I'm brushing my teeth properly. Bad habits sink in easily, and my various dentists all point out that my teeth and gums are much, much healthier. Given that I am cursed with some bad oral genetics, it's "money well spent" for me. - The counter helps remind me when to change…

ironically the special blue bristles in the philips heads that turn white when the brush head needs to be replaced is exactly what you want, I think?

Re: Hacking my “smart” toothbrush

#293

Post by cj »

tzs wrote: post #193
version_five wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Engineer gonna engineer. Someone probably just had the time and misplaced passion for security, and when they explained at the weekly standup that they'd added lockout after three attempts, everybody just nodded and moved on.

This has long been a temptation for engineers. 40 years ago the textbook in the digital electronics class I took at Caltech had a chapter called "The Engineer as Dope Pusher" that talked about it. It gave as an example clothes dryers. The way most home clothes dryers working back then was you put the clothes in, you turn a dial on a timer to the number of minutes you want the dryer to run, and you press start. The me…

I wish there were an easy way to screen these type of engineers out in the hiring process. It's very hard to judge whether a candidate's excitement over new technology is simply showing passion for what they do or a red flag. A certain degree of passion is desirable, but too much is not.

The worst engineers I've worked with are ones who, in their first week, fall behind on their onboarding plan because the company's compiler needs a rewrite.

Re: Hacking my “smart” toothbrush

#294

Post by aSockPuppeteer »

Kirby64 wrote: post #252
tzs wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has long been a temptation for engineers. 40 years ago the textbook in the digital electronics class I took at Caltech had a chapter called "The Engineer as Dope Pusher" that talked about it. It gave as an example clothes dryers. The way most home clothes dryers working back then was you put the clothes in, you turn a dial on a timer to the number of minutes you want the dryer to run, and you press start. The me…

Mechanical timers are fine, but digital circuitry is by far going to be more reliable if designed properly. There isn't anything physically moving, so the failure modes are much more restrictive. Also, digital provides advantages with offering variable timing on a dryer, for instance, based on the input of a moisture sensor. Mechanical methods for that are more complicated. Additionally, I would be very surprised if…

That’s the point of designing it improperly so it fails early and only keeping spare parts available for a year or consistently out of stock.

The supply chain issues are hurting the servicing part, repair feasibility, and manufacturing part.

Re: Hacking my “smart” toothbrush

#295

Post by m_mueller »

sp0ck wrote: post #185
uxcolumbo wrote: post #148

It's a toothbrush. Why does it need all this tech and an app? It's better to think about sustainability. I had an Oral B IO electric toothbrush. The retail price is nuts and the brushes are expensive and can't really be recycled. Imagine millions of these out there slowly rotting. I gave up on the IO and bought this one instead. Simple design and battery lasts longer too. https://www.trysuri.com/

Analogue/manual toothbrush is like 1-2 Euro. Product You are promoting is 85Euro. Assuming my normal toothbrush lasts 3 months for 85 Euro I have backup for 21 YEARS. Spare ones are for ~5.6 EUR piece. I will stay with using my hand ;-)

> I will stay with using my hand

have to use your hands?? that's like a baby's toy!

Re: Hacking my “smart” toothbrush

#296

Post by gonehome »

Kirby64 wrote: post #252
tzs wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has long been a temptation for engineers. 40 years ago the textbook in the digital electronics class I took at Caltech had a chapter called "The Engineer as Dope Pusher" that talked about it. It gave as an example clothes dryers. The way most home clothes dryers working back then was you put the clothes in, you turn a dial on a timer to the number of minutes you want the dryer to run, and you press start. The me…

Mechanical timers are fine, but digital circuitry is by far going to be more reliable if designed properly. There isn't anything physically moving, so the failure modes are much more restrictive. Also, digital provides advantages with offering variable timing on a dryer, for instance, based on the input of a moisture sensor. Mechanical methods for that are more complicated. Additionally, I would be very surprised if…

Yeah, I’m always skeptical of “it was better in the old days” type arguments (even though I recognize the aesthetic appeal of analog).

People make similar claims about cars, but old cars broke down all the time and new ones are basically appliances that “just work” without the driver needing to know anything. Similar for computers to smart phones (though obviously both digital in that transition)

Re: Hacking my “smart” toothbrush

#297

Post by fennecfoxy »

Kirby64 wrote: post #252
tzs wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has long been a temptation for engineers. 40 years ago the textbook in the digital electronics class I took at Caltech had a chapter called "The Engineer as Dope Pusher" that talked about it. It gave as an example clothes dryers. The way most home clothes dryers working back then was you put the clothes in, you turn a dial on a timer to the number of minutes you want the dryer to run, and you press start. The me…

Mechanical timers are fine, but digital circuitry is by far going to be more reliable if designed properly. There isn't anything physically moving, so the failure modes are much more restrictive. Also, digital provides advantages with offering variable timing on a dryer, for instance, based on the input of a moisture sensor. Mechanical methods for that are more complicated. Additionally, I would be very surprised if…

Yup exactly. And the electronics in a clothes washer allow for a lot more functionality than mech. When they say the "timer" was replaced with electronics, what they really mean to say is "the timer was replaced by electronics, which also allow you to select different temperatures/runtimes and whatnot based on the type of fabric you're washing or how fast you want it to be done, if you want stain removal or extra rinse then you can enable that, amongst other new options".

"Repairability" is becoming slightly nonsense because even as someone who is a programmer, who has done electronics at a hobbyist level myself, I'm not going to be able to fix a lot of stuff purely because you have to become an expert on it, the time investment is too high. As systems get more complex (to the overall benefit of all of us) the value of repairing something yourself vs getting an expert to do it, changes.

I think right to repair is good though, but purely meaning that companies to not intentionally attempt to thwart the repair of their devices and that parts/manuals are available where needed. Even so, this doesn't mean that every phone repair place is going to debug some sub-circuit inside some small part of the newest iPhone - they'll just identify the overall broken module and replace the entire board/module.

Re: Hacking my “smart” toothbrush

#298

Post by dimensi0nal »

whiddershins wrote: post #243
gwbas1c wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of the time I bought a lamp plug-in dimmer on Amazon, and I noticed that my "personal massager" was one of the "frequently bought with" items. My wife and I had a lot of fun that night! Turns out the "personal massagers" work a lot better that way.

Wait, personal massagers are generally battery operated. How does this work with a plug in lamp dimmer.

At full speed they overheat after 20 minutes or so.

Re: Hacking my “smart” toothbrush

#299

Post by kuroguro »

kuroguro wrote: post #210
netsec_burn wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Sonicare app lets you download the latest firmware blob. So all you'd do is intercept it and find the function responsible for generating the password.

The app has the firmware embedded in it (resources/assets/firmware), not sure if it actually downloads a newer one or if it updates with the app. It does seem to be encrypted or compressed somehow tho.

It does seem to be for the more expensive diamondclean series tho I guess the brush checking would be similar. Didn't find any decryption in the APK, it just transfers it as is. Must be hidden inside the firmware as well. I don't think there's any way to get the firmware except dump it from the chip :/

Re: Hacking my “smart” toothbrush

#300

Post by willyt »

Kirby64 wrote: post #266
joelfried wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is something physically moving: the machine itself. You can't wash or dry clothing without moving it around. Given that the entire machine moves (and on spin cycles, reasonably quickly), you need to make sure your circuitry is capable of handling the strain. As a homeowner, I wish someone (anyone!) still sold reliable analog appliances that just did their job simply and made repair parts and schematics reasonab…

Nobody would attach the timer to the actual moving drum, so the worst it has to deal with is physical vibrations from use (which, admittedly, can be quite violent if you have an unbalanced load). There are very few digital circuits that are actually meaningfully sensitive to vibrations. At worst, it's a manufacturing problem to make sure the PCB/solder joints don't crack from vibration. In comparison, the mechanical…

In a fridge the typical failing part is the plastic shelves in the door. The compressor almost never fails and discarded fridges are a great source of cheap pumps if you need to scavenge them.

Source: The episode of 'The Secret Life of Machines' on fridges. Search it on YouTube.

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