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Rust: The wrong people are resigning

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Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#291

Post by sophacles »

meindnoch wrote: post #86
d3nj4l wrote: post #8

In a way, I find this entire saga incredibly funny. There is so much hand wringing and pearl clutching at something that is supposedly in the shadows - this cabal of four or five people making decisions - that it makes the entire Rust "community" look juvenile. This is the kind of internecine conflict I should see in Anime discord servers, not about a language whose governance involves multiple major corporations!

>This is the kind of internecine conflict I should see in Anime discord servers Anime/furry culture has a significant overlap with the Rust community as far as I can tell as an outsider. E.g. there was that guy developing a Linux GPU driver for M1 Macs, narrating it with an anime "waifu" avatar and a speech plugin that makes you sound like a little girl from a Japanese cartoon.

Does any of this change the results of the work?

If not, can you explain to me like I'm extremely stupid and need a very clear step by step connecting of the dots, why it even remotely matters in the slightest?

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#292

Post by cvbo »

robin_reala wrote: post #92
meindnoch wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is the kind of internecine conflict I should see in Anime discord servers Anime/furry culture has a significant overlap with the Rust community as far as I can tell as an outsider. E.g. there was that guy developing a Linux GPU driver for M1 Macs, narrating it with an anime "waifu" avatar and a speech plugin that makes you sound like a little girl from a Japanese cartoon.

s/guy/woman

[flagged]

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#293

Post by cvbo »

dwb wrote: post #288
meindnoch wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, what? You're saying the guy's identity is an anime cartoon? Like, you think we should pretend he is a cartoon? You must be trolling... It's like saying that we should pretend the voice actor of Spongebob is really a cartoon sponge :D I mean, I'm fine with people pretending that. But you can't expect or force me and others to play along... :D

It's not remotely the same as Spongebob. The point is that whoever is behind Asahi Lina wants the character to be separate to their "real" identity. No-one is claiming they really are a digital cartoon. The request is to respect the clear wishes of the creator. It doesn't take anything from us to do so, and for all we know, they may have serious reasons for asking us.

[flagged]

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#294

Post by meindnoch »

dwb wrote: post #288
meindnoch wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, what? You're saying the guy's identity is an anime cartoon? Like, you think we should pretend he is a cartoon? You must be trolling... It's like saying that we should pretend the voice actor of Spongebob is really a cartoon sponge :D I mean, I'm fine with people pretending that. But you can't expect or force me and others to play along... :D

It's not remotely the same as Spongebob. The point is that whoever is behind Asahi Lina wants the character to be separate to their "real" identity. No-one is claiming they really are a digital cartoon. The request is to respect the clear wishes of the creator. It doesn't take anything from us to do so, and for all we know, they may have serious reasons for asking us.

Sorry, I can't talk seriously about a cartoon as if it was a real being :D

If the creator wants to stay anonymous (for which the cat is out of the bag in this case, I'm afraid) we may refer to him as "the guy behind the cartoon", but I can't pretend that the cartoon is the real person... That's just stupid...

Like, let's say you're playing Dungeons & Dragons with your friend over the weekend, where you're an elven warrior or whatever. But you can't compel your colleagues or the Starbucks clerk to treat you as an elven warrior next Monday when you go to work :D

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#295

Post by pantalaimon »

bluejekyll wrote: post #13
rustthrow wrote: post #3

> The recent incident with ThePHD’s keynote downgrade was not racially motivated, thankfully, but… if that’s what it looks like from the outside, and any form of official communication is still days or weeks away, does it really make a difference? yes! it does! we can't keep framing everything as race, gender, or orientation related. people have to have basic filters for what the most important issue is in a situatio…

I believe the reason they are saying it doesn’t matter, is that without a clear statement of what happened from the decision makers, people can speculate. One of those things people will speculate on is if this was one of the reasons. The fact that it is also part of the equation means it can’t be outright ignored and so will also need to be addressed. On top of that, this is already an underrepresented group, and re…

My first guess was the because ThePHD did a lot to push C23 forward, this might have been seen as a 'betrayal' to the Rust community - but maybe my imagination is a bit too wild, at least that’s what I hope.

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#296

Post by pantalaimon »

xiphias2 wrote: post #216
rustthrow wrote: post #3

> The recent incident with ThePHD’s keynote downgrade was not racially motivated, thankfully, but… if that’s what it looks like from the outside, and any form of official communication is still days or weeks away, does it really make a difference? yes! it does! we can't keep framing everything as race, gender, or orientation related. people have to have basic filters for what the most important issue is in a situatio…

Maybe the downgrade not, but the original keynote was, but we can only guess. I don't think it's popular to vote against a black person being the keynote speaker. At the same time this keynote is nowhere near as interesting as last year's async stabilization keynote, I think we can all agree on that.

If his talk would have been anything like his blog posts, I’d expect it to be brilliant

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#297

Post by [deleted] »

kaba0 wrote: post #269
meindnoch wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can also be pretty off-putting for women to be honest. When someone's avatar is an AI-generated "waifu" picture with deep cleavage, I don't think it looks welcoming for the average female programmer...

Calling them female is much more off putting. Women is a word.

[deleted]

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#298

Post by [deleted] »

Gwypaas wrote: post #154
caust1c wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Golang has lots of good examples of design discussions without vitriol in their RFCs and proposals. There is the occasional bikeshedding and needless bickering granted, but it mostly stays civil and is the most mature language community I've ever had the pleasure of being a part of.

Benevolent dictators make things way easier.

[deleted]

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#299

Post by stoniejohnson »

adamrezich wrote: post #248
stoniejohnson wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might not be reasonable, but it is likely.

why? upon what basis could you possibly make this claim?

Humans engage in tribalism and racism regularly.

Thus someone might assume something of that sort is at play here, though it might be an unreasonable assumption for reasons x, y, and z.

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#300

Post by SamoyedFurFluff »

sshine wrote: post #267
SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the one black guy in the entire convention had his talk downgraded through back-channel means, I would suspect race had to do with it (if only obliquely, in that often black peoples actions are often received in much less good faith than other races). If it was actually just general leadership incompetence I think that would be important to highlight. It’s super weird when the only black guy gets sus behavior, but…

The problem with assuming race has something to do with it is, you don’t learn the author’s race as you read his blog and interact with him via git. So you must assume either that the decision makers knew through other channels, or that without knowing, they’re out-crowding him via subconscious selectors. If you think this is a race thing, you probably think everything is a race thing.

Well I mean very clearly the community knew he was black. That’s why this discussion is being had. It’s not like the guys talk was downgraded and he went “surprise!! You can’t downgrade me because I’m black!!”. No, everyone knew he was the sole black person doing a talk in the entire event and he was the sole person who was downgraded in a backchannel, opaque manner. I would think that to be sus.
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