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My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

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Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#291

Post by scaramanga »

toss1 wrote: post #114
kspacewalk2 wrote: post #2

Yes, it's fundamentally unfair to those interviewees who don't cheat. And the process is broken. However, the conclusion this person reaches - we must conduct these broken interviews in person so the cheaters can't cheat - is the wrong one. Look at it from the point of view of the hiring company now, not the interviewer. They got a person who was good enough (based on the merits of their actual work, not interview pe…

>>Yes, it's fundamentally unfair to those interviewees who don't cheat. And the process is broken. However, the conclusion this person reaches - we must conduct these broken interviews in person so the cheaters can't cheat - is the wrong one. Correct! Making a harder-to-cheat "closed-book-test" isn't the answer. A better answer would be to make it "open-book" — allow and expect interviewees to have their full librari…

Or how about, you know, stop pretending we can evaluate someone's "intelligence" or "skill level" as if it's a one-dimensional factor that you have superhuman insight into measuring.

I'm satisfied, in an interview, if I feel the person is interested in the topic, is able to admit that they don't know something, and seems like they'd be pleasant (although i'd settle for "not difficult") to work with.

The breadth and depth of their knowledge is secondary and it's always a gamble because people excel at putting up very convincing façades of whatever it is that they think they're being evaluated for.

People have different things to offer, and you really don't find out until at least 6-12 months into their employment what they really excel at, you have no chance in 30-60 minute (or whatever) interview.

The best you can hope for is to rule out the obvious sociopaths.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#292

Post by jtwebman »

This isn't cheating in my mind. They use tools available to them just like they will have on their job. I would ask clarifying questions and if they understand what they are saying then why does it matter that the memorized the answer vs memorized how to find the answer

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#293

Post by asimpletune »

casey2 wrote: post #277
asimpletune wrote: post #115

Reading some of the comments in this thread I'm surprised. It seems that a substantial number of people think one of the following: a.) cheating on interviews is ok, because interviews don't reflect the actual job b.) this is acceptable because the promotion process is distinct from the interview process or c.) that the cheaters clearly are skilled after all because of all their success, as evidenced by being promote…

You don't actually offer any argument other than saying it's bad cause it's bad. If everyone who cheated and passed performed so well that they got promotions then the world would be a much better place than reality where most cheaters fail hilariously. If you can't even be bothered to give employees a real interview you don't care about the company and at that point the company is already bloated. What kind of perso…

Does VLLM stand for very LLM?

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#294

Post by wavefunction »

nosianu wrote: post #261
timthelion wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having grown up in America and moved to Czechia for college I have to say that I was absolutely shocked by the level of cheating both by Czechs as well as those from "farther east" like Ukraine and Russia. Just brazen obvious sheeting like taking notes into exams and hiding them. Cooperating during exams. Even collaboration to distract the teacher during exams. When I was at college in the US getting caught cheating…

This contradicts what we read here about cheating being very often tolerated in higher education institutions in the US, because money. Usually I try including at least a few links, but in this case I think anybody who has read these threads right here on HN should remember those numerous posts and discussions? I remember comments from educators who wanted to do something but the higher-ups prevented it, for example,…

Cheating might be tolerated more in the US if the student is wealthy, which might be a US student or far more likely the scion of some family in a foreign country. It has not been tolerated anywhere I've attended though.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#295

Post by AlexandrB »

mattgreenrocks wrote: post #221
asimpletune wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cheating ultimately cheats oneself, but it's very galling that it's now becoming accepted as okay behavior in American society Man, you crushed it here, so true.

The post-pandemic economic environment is toxic. Everyone seems to have come out of the pandemic convinced that they need to tighten whatever screws they have to get theirs. And that triggers other people to do the same thing. Cheating enters the realm of possibility because people (correctly and incorrectly) believe others are doing the same thing. It's gross and feeds on itself. I'm not sure what will help it get b…

It's pretty simple. There are few incentives for integrity and few disincentives for lack thereof. This shows up in all kind of contexts - from business leaders, to social media "influencers", to athletes, to politicians.

I'm not sure why anyone would expect "the average Joe" to maintain some semblance of integrity when very few successful individuals do the same. The overall message is pretty clear - if you want to succeed, you will need to cheat.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#296

Post by thih9 »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #23
thih9 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get stuff done but not exactly meet all of the requirements. So maybe features will get implemented but rules and laws not necessarily respected. And perhaps that’s useful for some companies.

“No internet during dev” is not a business requirement, it’s hazing When I used to run interviews (no longer working) I’d learn the most from seeing how candidates resourcefully used google, skimmed results, found relevant info. That was immediately revealing.

I think it’s a popular approach to see the hiring process as hazing, at least in some companies. I.e. to throw random hurdles, later check who’s doing best and hire them.

I saw companies state that openly. E.g. saying: we’re all competent programmers, none of us like leetcode and we don’t use that in our actual job, but we need a way to filter candidates and this seems the best practical solution.

Again, perhaps desperate people and/or hustlers make for a good workforce, especially in some companies.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#297

Post by falcolas »

JohnFen wrote: post #178
mattgibson wrote: post #3

TBF I don't think this is bad. The "cheating" involved seems a closer match to the actual real world conditions of the doing the job than the artificial "no internet allowed" assessment. If the candidates can get stuff done but need the internet as a reference, that's still getting stuff done. Not surprising that they are now getting promoted given they can not only get stuff done, but were resourceful enough to find…

A person who cheats is a person who cannot be trusted. Trustworthiness is one of the things employers are looking for.

> Trustworthiness is one of the things employers are looking for.

And yet rarely reciprocated beyond what's explicitly required by law.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#298

Post by rhyme-boss »

The standard process at tech companies for interviewing and assessing candidates is completely ludicrous. I like writing software but I've given up on the industry because of attitudes around hiring and advancement within companies. It just sucks dick everywhere I've worked.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#299

Post by mc32 »

tristor wrote: post #160

I'm probably going to get roasted for saying this, but this is completely unsurprising to me. When I was in college, folks from India and other low trust societies would mercilessly cheat on their projects and exams, blatantly helping one another on individual works, and the college knew about it and didn't care. When I had brought this up at one point, I was told by a professor that it was a cultural difference that…

I had classmates from France which would be middling in the social trust spectrum -boy oh boy, did they cheat on homework and exams. Same for Koreans and Chinese, but Japanese didn't cheat (or at least I didn't notice).

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#300

Post by licebmi__at__ »

yCombLinks wrote: post #216
scarface74 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes because Americans never cheat to get ahead and we are all morally superior…

There's a very well studied decline in trust in America over time. Despite your snark no one claimed we never cheated etc. It's just getting much worse

Nobody claimed that americans never cheated, yet the blame of things getting worse is put on GP on those coming from “low trust” societies.

It’s a xenophobic lie, like if Americans don’t celebrate lying on positive euphemisms like “fake it till you make it” or “being a good salesman”

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