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Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

bloomberg.com

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Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

#291

Post by EdwardDiego »

operatingthetan wrote: post #213
EdwardDiego wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have ADHD treated with methylphenidate, and smoke weed recreationally, and that "interesting observation" doesn't align with my experiences at all.

It doesn't work with MPH... amphetamines only. It's best to be at least in the same family of drugs when talking about interactions like that. I would strongly recommend not switching to adderall to try though.

Any info on that? They're both CNS stimulants, both phenylethylamines, why would THC affect them so differently?

But you're right that the narcissism of small differences is often made manifest in chemistry.

Just wanted to say though, if someone is getting a "high" from Adderall or Ritalin, they're not taking it medicinally, and that's the problem with these discussions, it's very easy to conflate prescribed use with abuse, which ignores the fact that recreational dosages are far higher than medicinal.

Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

#292

Post by renonce »

gwern wrote: post #278
lisasays wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll save everyone a click: yes, this is a case of 'correlation != causation'. The authors (whose freshman stats classes were presumably as good as yours) were evidently well aware of this distinction - which is why they took the trouble to say 'association' rather than 'causation' in the title. So the pedantry here seems rather misplaced.

No, my pedantry is not misplaced. Let me again repeat: we know the correlate is confounded. This isn't a hypothetical. It is a known fact established from many different methods triangulating the same result: the naive SCZ/marijuana correlation is confounded, and quite substantially so. Their entire analysis is predicated on an assumption which is substantially false. And I agree they know what they're doing, which i…

I wonder if this is the norm of scientific research nowadays. I mean, not the top 20% of useful researches but the bottom 80% that do not turn out to be useful immediately. We have too many scientists hungry for publications and citations so they can get funding and make a living, which means they have an incentive that distracts them from actual research.

Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

#293

Post by Mike_123456 »

CapstanRoller wrote: post #281
Mike_12345 wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Very interesting! I'd love to learn more. Please show us the data supporting this assertion. You can't demand a study/citation for someones personal experience. That is absurd. You are being an absolutely illogical clown. I was talking about my opinion and direct personal experience. I explained this multiple times but you are incapable of understanding this basic concept. "Objective" means observable and measurabl…

Please stop insulting me, thanks. I will ignore your hostility for now. >You can't demand a study/citation for someones personal experience. That is absurd. Personal experience is subjective . I am not questioning your subjective experience , because that would indeed be absurd. What I am questioning is your claim that cannabis is objectively neurotoxic . I am asking you to substantiate your claim about this supposed…

[flagged]

Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

#294

Post by CapstanRoller »

Mike_123456 wrote: post #293
CapstanRoller wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please stop insulting me, thanks. I will ignore your hostility for now. >You can't demand a study/citation for someones personal experience. That is absurd. Personal experience is subjective . I am not questioning your subjective experience , because that would indeed be absurd. What I am questioning is your claim that cannabis is objectively neurotoxic . I am asking you to substantiate your claim about this supposed…

[flagged]

>If I smoke weed, and it causes cognitive impairment such that I am unable to perform certain tasks (such as driving, or my job) or it causes psychosis, then that is an objective observable result.

"Cognitive impairment" is not shorthand for "neurotoxicity"

>Have you ever experienced an extremely bad hangover? Would you say that was obviously neurotoxic or not?

It has already been proven that alcohol kills brain cells. The hangover is caused by the direct effects of ethanol and acetaldehyde (its primary metabolite).

There is no evidence that cannabis kills brain cells. In fact, there is evidence to the contrary.

You are claiming there is evidence of cannabis neurotoxicity, that cannabis kills brain cells. Where is the evidence for that? Despite what you may believe, being stoned is not a type of brain damage.

Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

#295

Post by Hxfso-1 »

autoexec wrote: post #95
sosodev wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh that's interesting. I thought the linked review study was what they were referencing. Why would they reference a study as the basis for the entire article without linking to it? .-. This really seems like bad journalism for the sake of clickbait.

It feels like I see this a lot more recently and not just with science articles. Someone will write an entire article about a subject and never provide enough information for anyone to reach any informed opinion about it at all. It might be an article about a controversial statement someone made, but they'll never quote or link to what was actually said and instead only talk about the drama surrounding it. When the a…

Interesting observation!

Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

#296

Post by DANmode »

fpiacenza wrote: post #197
denton-scratch wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Empirically (based on my own observations) I've known for decades that weed induced episodes in schizophrenic people. I didn't know it was helpful for autistic people. On the same (personal observation) basis, I'd say that schizophrenic people are drawn to cannabis. I have no idea why; perhaps because they're often very marginalized and precarious.

Schizophrenia is a disease, not a "type of people". With enough dose anyone can become psychotic on THC.

This is equivalent to saying with enough liquor, anyone can be transformed into a drunken aggressive person.

I don't think it's as absolute as you're saying.

Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

#297

Post by lisasays »

gwern wrote: post #278
lisasays wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll save everyone a click: yes, this is a case of 'correlation != causation'. The authors (whose freshman stats classes were presumably as good as yours) were evidently well aware of this distinction - which is why they took the trouble to say 'association' rather than 'causation' in the title. So the pedantry here seems rather misplaced.

No, my pedantry is not misplaced. Let me again repeat: we know the correlate is confounded. This isn't a hypothetical. It is a known fact established from many different methods triangulating the same result: the naive SCZ/marijuana correlation is confounded, and quite substantially so. Their entire analysis is predicated on an assumption which is substantially false. And I agree they know what they're doing, which i…

Lemme give the paper a closer read + get back to you on this.

Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

#298

Post by [deleted] »

CapstanRoller wrote: post #294
Mike_123456 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

>If I smoke weed, and it causes cognitive impairment such that I am unable to perform certain tasks (such as driving, or my job) or it causes psychosis, then that is an objective observable result. "Cognitive impairment" is not shorthand for "neurotoxicity" >Have you ever experienced an extremely bad hangover? Would you say that was obviously neurotoxic or not? It has already been proven that alcohol kills brain cell…

[deleted]

Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

#299

Post by Mike_123456 »

CapstanRoller wrote: post #294
Mike_123456 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

>If I smoke weed, and it causes cognitive impairment such that I am unable to perform certain tasks (such as driving, or my job) or it causes psychosis, then that is an objective observable result. "Cognitive impairment" is not shorthand for "neurotoxicity" >Have you ever experienced an extremely bad hangover? Would you say that was obviously neurotoxic or not? It has already been proven that alcohol kills brain cell…

> Despite what you may believe, being stoned is not a type of brain damage.

Schizophrenia and psychosis in general is not "getting stoned". That outcome strongly indicates neurotoxicity.

Apologies for the harsh confrontational tone in my previous comments.

Here's a point I was trying to make earlier:

The statement: "Led Zeppelin is better than the Beatles" is subjective because it expresses an opinion that is open to interpretation.

The statement: "I have a preference for Led Zeppelin versus the Beatles" is objective, because it is a statement of fact about your personal experience, and is not subject to interpretation or debate. It also doesn't require "data" or cited research.

Re: Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

#300

Post by Mike_123456 »

CapstanRoller wrote: post #294
Mike_123456 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

>If I smoke weed, and it causes cognitive impairment such that I am unable to perform certain tasks (such as driving, or my job) or it causes psychosis, then that is an objective observable result. "Cognitive impairment" is not shorthand for "neurotoxicity" >Have you ever experienced an extremely bad hangover? Would you say that was obviously neurotoxic or not? It has already been proven that alcohol kills brain cell…

> There is no evidence that cannabis kills brain cells

Search on Google Scholar for "neurotoxicity of cannabis". There is evidence for and against. It is debatable.

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