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Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

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Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#291

Post by wpietri »

inferiorhuman wrote: post #271
wpietri wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a perfect thing, sure. But it's a big step forward. It's hugely better than having to deal with each system separately; I've had days when I've used 4 systems, for example. As you note with the pricing complexity, there is just a wide divergence of views and interests on how to run a transit system. And I get it; I think there are legitimate reasons people picked those different pricing systems. But they fig…

I've had days when I've used 4 systems, for example. Sure, I've done similar trips and the worst part was not the payment but rather the obstacles that BART puts up and the sparse service in the suburbs. BART's TVMs have historically made it difficult to pay with cash and credit cards. TransLink/Clipper didn't fix that. If people are interested in the history that drives some of what it ended up the way it did The an…

> We didn't/don't need a single payment system

I disagree. I did need a single payment system. I am glad I have it. I do not need a single unified fare policy.

I understand that you want different things. Which is fine! But it's frustrating to me that you are trying to negate my complimenting some people who worked hard and made things better just because they didn't also do the things you want. Things, I'm sure, many of them also wanted.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#292

Post by ghaff »

Symbiote wrote: post #191
bombolo wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes like in london. I bought a 24h pass at 8pm, only to find out it's 24h only if you buy it at 00.00, because they all expire at midnight. They are basically running a legalised tourist scam over there. I can imagine hundreds of thousands of people falling for this.

In London, aren't you pushed towards using a contactless credit or debit card? (They expire at 4am, though the point remains.)

Oyster cards still seem to be pretty common though I think you can use contactless credit cards in a lot of situations these these days.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#293

Post by wheels »

golem14 wrote: post #290
wheels wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My inclination to agree that public transit should mostly be a nationalized utility. But some experience in rural areas leads me to a counterargument that I don't have a good answer for: Should people that live in urban spaces massively subsidize people that choose to live in rural areas for no economically useful reason? Like, some tech bros decide they don't want neighbors and want to live 20 km from everything. Sh…

I think this is a good question, but I'm assuming that this is happening anyways: Few constitutions have provisions forcing tech bros to live in the city. If they move to the burbs without public transit, they are being subsidized via roads and car traffic, which is arguably worse.

I think you're also right. The framing for this is I spend some time in a village that has a part that's now been inaccessible because of a landslide. About 10 people live on the road that's now impassable. Digging a safe tunnel through the mountain would cost millions. Should the state shoulder the cost for the mostly wealthy retirees that live on the other side? I don't have a good answer.

I also have a version of this from a doctor friend that lives on a "farm" that doesn't grow anything. Who should pay for the roads / public transit to their place? Everyone else? Again, I don't have a good answer. But I'm open to the idea that people that simply want to live in rural areas as a personal luxury should shoulder some of the costs to making those places accessible.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#294

Post by wkat4242 »

Hm nice, here in Barcelona we have a similar deal for 20 euro, but it only covers the metro area.

Still, it's rare for me to go further away and it wouldn't make sense to pay 50 bucks a month for that. And if I go to another major city I would use a high speed train which wouldn't be included anyway.

So 20 a month for all city travel is pretty ideal here, especially with Spain's low wages.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#295

Post by wkat4242 »

inferiorhuman wrote: post #202
wpietri wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which reminds me to give a shout-out to the Clipper card. The SF Bay Area really did the right thing here. 24 different systems, all of which use the same card: https://www.clippercard.com/ClipperWeb/where-to-use.html And they have now expanded that card-based system to include a mobile app, Google Pay, and Apple Pay, so now I just tap my phone and I'm all set.

The SF Bay Area really did the right thing here. No, no they really didn't. They spent millions rebranding it, there is (was?) a huge lag between adding value and posting the value depending on how you added value. The original card readers were incredibly unreliable, and because Clipper/TransLink did absolutely nothing to unify* the fare structure across the twenty-four different systems you could be set up for a na…

> Clipper/TransLink

I wonder if this company is related to the TransLink which is the one running the OV Chipkaart in the Netherlands? https://www.translink.nl/

This is also a really poor system, it took years to implement and the various services never integrated properly. They all have to have their own portals and if you forget to scan one you're screwed and have to physically go back. The card can't be put on a phone and can't even be scanned for the credit level in the app (you can view it online but it's 24 hours old which is totally useless).

Also it was cracked 3 months after being rolled out because they used older mifare cards with known flaws, which had been on the market for 10 years.

They are working on some new thing now using credit cards which will probably also suck :P

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#297

Post by qumpis »

wheels wrote: post #280
yarg wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm going to float a theory: you live in Silicon Valley and that doesn't seem like much money? I'm a suicidal burn out trying to drag my mind back from oblivion, I sure as shit am not on silicon valley money. Also: > Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. Your argument's a straw man, regardless of the fact that y…

> What's the percentage of overall income? Half of that? So low that your argument holds very little water. Yeah, about that. Do you think most working class people are flippant about costs that take 2.5% of their pre-tax income? I'm in favor of the €49/month ticket. It's a step forward. But I genuinely don't understand how (and it feels like some sort of cultural or social class disconnect) that seems trivial to peo…

If people take buy this ticket, it either alleviates previous commuting costs or is merely a purchase of convenience. Either way it's a positive at its current price

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#298

Post by BasedGroyper99 »

Hasnep wrote: post #281
BasedGroyper99 wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But a fountain is something that naturally occurs. It is used in that way because it gives more water than anyone can use, but enough water for everyone in reasonable amounts. It's not just some kind of lesser evil. Trains and railroads must first be built and maintained, they are on the same level as roads and busses. I think there is a difference between providing the opportunity and giving things out for free.

You're saying public transport is on the same level as roads. Most roads are free to use because they're maintained with tax money, just like free public transport would be, because they're both in the public's interest.

I'm saying the tracks are on the same level as roads. Not riding the trains.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#299

Post by firearmanon76 »

jameshart wrote: post #276
roamerz wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Another much needed example would be nationwide reciprocity for concealed carry firearms. It’s too easy to be on the wrong side of the law when crossing state lines and the regulatory nuances are difficult to understand state to state.

It seems like there is a very easy way to remain on the right side of concealed carry laws, which is to simply not carry a concealed weapon . If you want to do so, familiarizing yourself with the laws as you cross state lines is the very least you can do. Demanding reciprocity is like saying ‘I should be able to turn right on red lights in NYC because my car has Jersey plates’.

It seems like there is a very easy way to remain the right side of $SOME_LAWS, which is to simply not commit crimes in whatever region you travel. If you want to do so, familiarizing yourself with the laws as you cross state lines is the very least you can do.

Demanding reciprocity is like saying ‘I should be able to do $SOMETHING_WHICH_VARIES_IN_ILLEGALITY_BY_REGION.’

Now insert any other topic: abortion, weed use, transgenderism, human rights, etc.

Just because it’s not your pet issue, doesn’t mean it’s not utterly asinine to accidentally end up on the wrong side of the law due to sheer happenstance — all within the same country.

I would rather be deported and barred from entering a certain state in which I carry out something perfectly legal in my home state, but is illegal in the former state — rather than suffering at the hands of a heavy-handed and unempathetic justice system.

Re: Millions snap up new Germany-wide public transit ticket

#300

Post by andromeduck »

ghaff wrote: post #193
wpietri wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which reminds me to give a shout-out to the Clipper card. The SF Bay Area really did the right thing here. 24 different systems, all of which use the same card: https://www.clippercard.com/ClipperWeb/where-to-use.html And they have now expanded that card-based system to include a mobile app, Google Pay, and Apple Pay, so now I just tap my phone and I'm all set.

Yeah, not as much in the Bay Area these days, but the Clipper card is a huge improvement over the previous system. And I imagie by the time I eventually run down my Clipper balance I'll be fine with my phone.

They not to keep too much of a balance on any one card. It's something $50 and a 2+ hour wait one the phone to transfer balances between cards IIRC.
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