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Career advice no one gave me: Give a lot of notice when you quit

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Re: Career advice no one gave me: Give a lot of notice when you quit

#291

Post by indymike »

refulgentis wrote: post #179
indymike wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But now when I "give notice" and they don't even let me try to work the next 2 weeks, I'm grateful. Life hack: Put your resignation in writing with a date in the future. In many states, if the employer attempts to move the termination date (without compensation), they will award wages until your resignation date... I've used this twice, and in both cases, I was sent home, but HR told the manager that any severance…

This isn’t accurate, might have worked in one-off situations but, given at-will employment, this was at best a confused HR employee trying to help, not a legal conclusion. Note the obvious edge cases

> given at-will employment, this was at best a confused HR employee trying to help

US centric advice: Most states will automatically award unemployment to the employee if they are termed before the resignation date. In some cases, a dated resignation when combined with an email chain about "how to get rid of them" it will turn into a genuine legal risk. Most US HR people will advise to just respect a reasonable resign date or offer a severance agreement to avoid risk. Source: aside doing it myself with a couple of employers, since then I've owned four companies and dealt with the aftermath from managers who think they are smarter than HR.

Re: Career advice no one gave me: Give a lot of notice when you quit

#292

Post by indymike »

gamblor956 wrote: post #203
indymike wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But now when I "give notice" and they don't even let me try to work the next 2 weeks, I'm grateful. Life hack: Put your resignation in writing with a date in the future. In many states, if the employer attempts to move the termination date (without compensation), they will award wages until your resignation date... I've used this twice, and in both cases, I was sent home, but HR told the manager that any severance…

In the U.S., an employee that resigns is not entitled to severance. In this case, you would only have received severance if you had been terminated before your resignation date. If they sent you home but continued to pay you for that month, you would not have been entitled to severance.

This is correct, unless there's a reason why they should... and if they are smart, the severance will include setting the term date to the severance date.

Re: Career advice no one gave me: Give a lot of notice when you quit

#293

Post by robocat »

refulgentis wrote: post #179
indymike wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But now when I "give notice" and they don't even let me try to work the next 2 weeks, I'm grateful. Life hack: Put your resignation in writing with a date in the future. In many states, if the employer attempts to move the termination date (without compensation), they will award wages until your resignation date... I've used this twice, and in both cases, I was sent home, but HR told the manager that any severance…

This isn’t accurate, might have worked in one-off situations but, given at-will employment, this was at best a confused HR employee trying to help, not a legal conclusion. Note the obvious edge cases

If it works, you win $$: why be so negative? Maybe some downsides if they make you work longer, but that is a judgement call to make depending on context.

Factually it worked twice for them, versus your theories that it shouldn’t work.

Re: Career advice no one gave me: Give a lot of notice when you quit

#294

Post by SuperCuber »

lannisterstark wrote: post #227
fredrikholm wrote: post #189

Reading the comments in this thread really feeds into my bias that worker rights in the US are ... n't? I vividly remember a job posting from last year that listed '15 allowed sick days' as a benefit. What does that even mean? In Scandinavia, you set a mutual duration of notice for both parties when signing the initial contracts to start working. For IT jobs, the standard is 2-3 months. This gives both parties ample…

>you set a mutual duration of notice for both parties when signing the initial contracts to start working. For IT jobs, the standard is 2-3 months. This gives both parties ample time to adapt. That sounds like a nightmare to me. Sometimes I want to quit immediately. I should be able to rather than stay in a miserable job for 2-3 months.

my contract has a month notice, but if I don't work then they don't have to pay me. One month notice is pretty standard in my country, but the wording also gives me an effective way of "no notice" quitting, obviously that's far from the norm here so it burns quite a lot of bridges.

Re: Career advice no one gave me: Give a lot of notice when you quit

#295

Post by Leherenn »

adastra22 wrote: post #239
Leherenn wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never understood this "slavery" argument. It's not enslavement, it's fulfilling a contract. They won't put you in jail if you don't show up, you're simply in breach of contract. It's like if you're a freelance and you accept a project. They can't force you to work on the project until completed, but they can certainly levy financial penalties against you if you don't.

> They can't force you to work on the project until completed, but they can certainly levy financial penalties against you if you don't. There are very few circumstances in the US in which an employer can do that. It is considered wage theft, which in many states is a criminal offense that pierces the corporate veil. If you worked hours you get paid for those hours and the company can't avoid paying you (with fees or…

Does that mean that any contracted work is indentured servitude? That sounds really broad. If I hire you to build a website, and you bail out halfway through and the liquidated damage clause kicks in, I don't think that makes you my indentured servant.

I was most likely confusing with "financial penalties", mostly it means not paying you after you stop working, and in some specific circumstances you can sue for damages. They can't fine you.

Re: Career advice no one gave me: Give a lot of notice when you quit

#297

Post by 0xBDB »

fredrikholm wrote: post #189

Reading the comments in this thread really feeds into my bias that worker rights in the US are ... n't? I vividly remember a job posting from last year that listed '15 allowed sick days' as a benefit. What does that even mean? In Scandinavia, you set a mutual duration of notice for both parties when signing the initial contracts to start working. For IT jobs, the standard is 2-3 months. This gives both parties ample…

"What does that even mean?"

It means you get 15 paid days a year to be sick. Beyond that, you have a certain number by law (I think 60) which you can take unpaid without risk of being fired. After that, sickness is theoretically grounds for termination, but very few large employers would do that because of the bad publicity. Also most IT workers here have long-term disability insurance for 'free' from their employers, meaning that they're still making 50 or 60 percent of their usual total comp for as long as they're sick after being fired.

"In Scandinavia, you set a mutual duration of notice for both parties when signing the initial contracts to start working. For IT jobs, the standard is 2-3 months."

I will gladly take a capped number of paid sick days to be able to leave in 2 weeks on good terms, and whenever I want otherwise. I will also take the lower unemployment rate that comes as a result of employers being unafraid to hire because they can easily fire. People seem to think labor flexibility is purely for the benefit of the employer. Not so. Short notice periods are a worker right, one Americans have and Europeans don't.

Re: Career advice no one gave me: Give a lot of notice when you quit

#298

Post by jjav »

locusofself wrote: post #256
karaterobot wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't seem correct to me. I've been in the industry coming up on 20 years, and I've never seen a company send someone home after putting in notice of resignation. Perhaps it happened and I didn't know about it, I can't rule that out, but I know that the majority of cases have not worked this way. It's difficult to imagine why they would do this, since it would remove all the cushion that 2+ week period would p…

> I've never seen a company send someone home after putting in notice of resignation. only for people really underperforming, or going to a competitor

> or going to a competitor

Never say where you are going when you resign. That's standard practice (California, anyway) and nobody will ask.

Re: Career advice no one gave me: Give a lot of notice when you quit

#299

Post by jjav »

EliRivers wrote: post #136
chickenpotpie wrote: post #125

No, no, no, no a billion times no to this absolutely not no The moment you give your resignation, there are good odds your company will say "we accept your resignation effective immediately. Goodbye." Sometimes it's a blanket company policy to do this, sometimes it's because they know you're going to a competitor and they don't want you to start training for your new job, sometimes they were on the fence about you st…

The moment you give your resignation, there are good odds your company will say "we accept your resignation effective immediately. Goodbye." Genuine question; is this a US thing? I've never, ever seen this or heard of it happening. I don't think I've ever worked at a company that didn't state in the contract the notice period. I have seen companies decide they don't want that person on site anymore when someone quits…

> > The moment you give your resignation, there are good odds your company will say "we accept your resignation effective immediately. Goodbye."

> Genuine question; is this a US thing?

At least in California/Silicon Valley I have never seen or experienced such a thing in almost 30 years, so I can say confidently it is not common.

Of course it can happen, there are zero employee protections in the US. But it's not common.

People generally give 2 weeks notice and keep coming in to the office (pre-pandemic) for those two weeks to meet with others and help transfer knowledge, hang out, do farewell lunches etc. Only on the end of the last day is your account access revoked. That's the expected convention.

Re: Career advice no one gave me: Give a lot of notice when you quit

#300

Post by projectazorian »

q7xvh97o2pDhNrh wrote: post #176
projectazorian wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Love it here, just looking for a new challenge” or “Love it here, but I couldn’t pass this opportunity up” have gotten me far. You can always be more honest behind closed doors if you want.

I'm impressed (and a bit envious) you were able to say that first part. I wish I'd worked at place where I could honestly say the same. Every place I've left, the best I could muster with a straight face was a bland tautological platitude — something like, "Oh, you know, just going to do something different." I don't exactly have tons of experience quitting jobs or ending relationships, but I've never understood the…

> And, besides, what's the point of expounding on how things could be better (in an "exit interview" or otherwise), when everyone knows all that feedback will have no impact?

Many employers do listen to exit interview feedback, and if themes are consistent, changes do get made. Have seen it happen more than once, although it usually takes multiple departures or the loss of a key person.

Of course not all employers are like this, but if you‘re willing to give yours the benefit of the doubt, it can be worth paying it forward to your colleagues by giving your feedback in a professional way.

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