Earlier quoted context omitted.
> So my advice to Rosenstock would be to seek another dedicated introvert. With respect; why? 40 years ago the future looked very different. None of you felt urgency regarding global warming, faced the same cost of living fiasco, spread of drought, fire, mass migrations, political instability, and whatever conspiracy driven idiocy social media will unleash next. There is no divine mandate humanity carry on a particul…
You statement could be made about literally any time in human history and hold true. It's defeatist. I feel you, sure- but it's like religion or politics- to each their own.
I’ve been single all my life
291–300 of 443 posts
Re: I’ve been single all my life
#292Earlier quoted context omitted.
Women are not baby machines or objects of beauty, they're people. Their "greatest value" is whatever they decide it to be. They should form relationships in the way that brings them the most happiness. Reducing women to objects of beauty, saying their value comes from their fertility, and implying that if they disagree with that assessment it's because they're too emotional is almost the dictionary definition of miso…
I think your response is resulting in so much disagreement in the comments due to differences in how this quote is parsed: > On average in relationships, women's greatest value is their youth and beauty (early/mid 20s), men's greatest value is when they've progressed in their career and are amassing wealth (mid/late 30s). Particularly what the word “value” means in this context. I suspect you take “value” to mean som…
I think supply and demand is a bad way to look at it. Dating isn't a "market" in the sense that an auction is conducted to discover the value of goods. If you find someone you're happy with, you can't leverage that to find someone you're even more happy with, in the way that if you made a good trade in a market you'd have capital to conduct more trades with.
This model of dating relies on flattening people so that they can be considered fungible, but dating is about how someone's idiosyncracies complement your own. Markets rely on there being a ground truth of how valuable something is, and for every participant to bring their information about that to the marketplace. But in dating, one pair of people might be toxic and horrible, and those same people might do great with other partners - it's far too murky and subjective to be reduced to a market.
Re: I’ve been single all my life
#293Earlier quoted context omitted.
What the other replies said. But with a couple of clarifications: You should engage in an activity that you enjoy for its own sake. Don't take up dance class, for instance, if you aren't actually interested in learning to dance. Don't "go looking for women". That is, don't try to be a pickup artist. Make an effort to be generally social, but don't focus just on the ladies. Be generally social. Talk to the men as well…
I find this to be bad advice. People already do the activities they enjoy and don’t do the activities that don’t enjoy. Clearly the activities they enjoy do not involve meeting women. For me, this translates to weight lifting (few women lift; if there are women, there is a trope for creepy gym guy and there isn’t much socialization outside of the men’s locker room) or coding (another solo experience). Try new things.…
I want to stress just how difficult both of these things can be -- especially the second part. It's truly a journey where you end up changing your entire mindset to become a person who is going to make a good partner for another human being. You must not feel pressured to do it, or resentful that you are doing it. You must choose wholeheartedly to do it. It's going to feel awkward and strange along the way.
Re: I’ve been single all my life
#294Earlier quoted context omitted.
>> married men living longer Could it be just healthier and wealthier men getting ringed more often? >> forget things or miss appointments Don't see how that is a problem in the age of smartphones. If you insist on a person, you can hire a virtual assistant for way cheaper than a wife.
Your virtual assistant is not going to remind you of things that you did not devote to telling a virtual assistant in the first place. Your spouse is more likely to help fill in the unintentional places you might have missed in your intentional day to day actions.
Re: I’ve been single all my life
#295Earlier quoted context omitted.
FWIW, I didn’t read what GP wrote as being prescriptive nor “justification”, but rather an observation of the statistics involved in heterosexual males selection of dating/marriage prospects. I hate the idea of anyone feeling inferior or less worthy due to not being chosen by someone else. At the same time, we can speak objectively about what one group of people statistically find desirable in another group. I mean,…
Certainly it is normal & healthy to communicate what you're looking for in a relationship upfront, and to respond to that blamelessly as you suggest. I'm not convinced in the utility of using statistics to derive dating advice, I think by and large there's a huge diversity in what people are looking for and the best advice is to work on being a healthy and realized person and being patient with finding a partner, but…
I touched on this in a later response under your initial comment in this thread, but the tl;dr was that I interpreted their use of the word "value" being the same as its use in economics: something is said to be "valued" if it is desired/sought after, and whether that should be the case or how we feel about it is an orthogonal concern (though certainly not any less deserving of discussion itself).
> [...] with a postscript about how these "truths" are too hot to handle. If it were simply about following the facts wherever they lead, surely there wouldn't be a need to preemptively declare that anyone who disagreed did so irrationally, and surely it wouldn't have been categorical without making room for nuance or disagreement.
I think I see where you're coming from now. I suspect difference in interpretation is a consequence of differences in our individual priors: I have seen countless times that people will conflate mentioning of a statistic with support for that statistic being what it is -- there is, after all, the proverbial saying "don't shoot the messenger". So I can sympathize with (what I interpret to be) a preemptive "I know some of you are going to take what I've written uncharitably and/or irrationally, so fire away" -- which isn't to say that I think that's a productive way of communicating, but I see the rationale behind that (as misguided as it may be) just as much as I can see the rationale behind giving someone the finger, or cussing someone out, letting out a frustrated sigh, or any other emotionally motivated outburst. (I didn't take what was originally written to mean "if you disagree, it's because you're being irrational")
Re: I’ve been single all my life
#296Your post is vulnerable and humble but at the same time your thinking is self centered and overly complicated.
We are all unique snowflakes of course but maybe a good starting point is understanding why humans get into relationships.
The most obvious reason is children. For many of us, the idea of leaving this planet without raising up the next generation is deeply unsatisfying. Is that a factor for you at all? Maybe on a deep level?
The second reason is a desire for partnership - to support and be supported. To be richly enmeshed in another person's life - and the beautiful and painful things this entails.
Those are the deeply meaningful reasons.
Less deep are the desire to explore, to connect with a lot of people, to get to know them inside out so to speak even if you end up moving on.
I suspect most men have these desires whether they are deeply conscious of them or just "pinging" you with a feeling of "maybe I should be doing more than I am as a single guy"
In other words, discover your "why." If you think you might want kids for example, own that you feel this way. If you think a life without a person to be dedicated to is kinda meaningless, own that you feel this way. If you just feel like loser for not having figured this out - and don't want to feel that way - own that. Doesn't matter if your reason is good or bad - just connect to it.
If you discover a reason and feel connected to your why, it all becomes a question of "how". I think it would be good to establish that.
Because the "how" then changes a lot, finding the mother of your children is different than figuring out how to get laid.
Re: I’ve been single all my life
#297> The obvious course of action when you are unsure about something is experimentation. However, a relationship isn’t an activity (like a job, hobby, or sport) to try and quit when you don’t like it.
Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. Naïve, self-defeating. every relationship is an experiment. and if you try it and don’t like it then you can quit any time.
> Also, if it doesn’t work out, I’m scared of leaving a broken heart in another person.
Yes. That’s the real problem, fear of the unknown.
Better to love and to lose, than to live and to never have found love.
Re: I’ve been single all my life
#298I'd wonder how many women this guy (and guys who relate to this post) are incidentally meeting every week. When I was in my mid 20s after uni, it was basically zero. Just women at work, if even that. If so, this is basically the result you can expect and nothing is going to change until you get those numbers up. The common thread I see with guys not meeting women is almost never "I meet a lot of women but they never…
As someone wiser than me once commented -- nobody is going to knock on your door. If you want to meet people, you have to get out there and do things that put you around people.
Maybe nerdy people's choices of solo hobbies are downstream of social anxiety or social skills deficits. I've made a ton of progress there in my twenties, and there's no movement in my desire to go dancing or pottery-making or whatever, so I dunno.
I also think there's also some kind of subconscious relationship between social status and taste, such that most people end up with preferences that feel real and also just so happen to help them connect with their peer group. I mean, how is it that so many teenagers become obsessed with the same music their friends do? Music is between me and Spotify, alone in my room at night. I go to a concert & see people there who look like me, but not a single acquaintance in my Facebook social graph would have the artist in common (even back when that was a thing) so who am I going to invite?
I won't sit here and pretend to have totally authentic and uninfluenced preferences. But the ones I can trace, I trace to like, my dad. Or Hacker News. Seems like that mechanism misfired.
Re: I’ve been single all my life
#299Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think your response is resulting in so much disagreement in the comments due to differences in how this quote is parsed: > On average in relationships, women's greatest value is their youth and beauty (early/mid 20s), men's greatest value is when they've progressed in their career and are amassing wealth (mid/late 30s). Particularly what the word “value” means in this context. I suspect you take “value” to mean som…
I take "value" in that sentence to mean "worth". I think supply and demand is a bad way to look at it. Dating isn't a "market" in the sense that an auction is conducted to discover the value of goods. If you find someone you're happy with, you can't leverage that to find someone you're even more happy with, in the way that if you made a good trade in a market you'd have capital to conduct more trades with. This model…
I agree with this.
Though I also don't think anyone is really trying to suggest (express or implied) that there's a general, natural analogy to be made between dating and markets; I solely think the word "value" was being used in the economical sense, without implying any further connection to economic theory. I realize that, when I suggested that "value" was probably meant in the sense of supply/demand, I may have conveyed something I wasn't trying to; sorry about that.
At any rate, this is how I and most people within both my family and social circles have used "value" in conversation: not an expression of sentiment, but merely an observation of what others want. Given this meaning, it's actually nonsensical to speak of a person's value without any supporting context -- people don't have value any more than the color green has smoothness/roughness, or the a note played on a piano is righteous/unjust -- these descriptors just don't apply. I could say that my skills within my career field are valued, and I suppose I could restate that as "I am a valuable employee", but I myself have no intrinsic value. If you read that with "value" replaced with "self worth" (by which people generally would mean something like "self esteem"), then it sounds pretty bad -- but that's not what's meant. I suspect most people in the HN demographic also use "value" pretty consistently in the way I've suggested -- not that I'm trying to make the argument that "value" should be interpreted this way or that way, but just pointing out what I think I've seen in practice.
I think what was originally suggested upstream in the comments was that there are qualities that most men happen to be looking for (are "valued"/"valuable"), and that those qualities give rise to pressures (as unfortunate as they may be) on women to find a long term / life partner sooner than later.
Re: I’ve been single all my life
#300Maybe it's just me, but: love, romantic sexual relationships, and some indescribable things between make life worth living. That's the good shit.
Life is so goddamn short: spend it with interesting, cool, reliable people.
And fuck around while you can because there will be a time when you can't.
You don't have to be clever, smooth, a genius, or perfect.. just treat others as human and be real. An interest in someone other than oneself. If that someone else doesn't reciprocate, move on. With age and practice, it gets as easy and natural as walking.
Regret at the end of life for a path not traveled is a living hell that cannot be undone. The goal in life should be to die happy having done everything and having dented the universe a bit.