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Framework Laptop 16

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Re: Framework Laptop 16

#291

Post by bombcar »

zerocrates wrote: post #274
bombcar wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At that point it seems almost worth it just to buy another one so you have two laptops; a mainboard has to be a significant part of the cost of the whole system. (this was my problem back when I built desktops - it was almost never worth upgrading anything but RAM or disk, instead build a whole new one and repurpose/sell the old one)

It's something like a little under half the cost or so, last I checked. Not a terrible option if you're happy with the screen/keyboard/etc. bits you'd be keeping. And the one you take out can be repurposed into a mini-PC of its own, or sold. As a desktop builder myself, I like the flexibility to upgrade (or easily replace for broken components) within the socket family (AMD in particular had a pretty wide run of comp…

The repairability is a bigger thing for me; the upgradability is a nice plus (especially if you blow your motherboard, and need to buy a replacement, why not get the latest and greatest).

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#292

Post by bcrosby95 »

AlexDragusin wrote: post #279
nrp wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’ve been very deliberate about making this not a traditional gaming laptop, but a laptop that can be configured with enough performance to play intense games. You can configure it without the Graphics Module and have a high-performance 16” notebook with reconfigurable input and easy repairability and upgradeabilty.

Possibly this could work better with all that space? https://imgur.com/a/V0Ykw1D

Presumably you could eventually get a 3rd party module like that.

Speaking personally, I would love a 60% keyboard option with a key layout similar to mechanical ones. Considering this doesn't really exist on the laptop market, I'd be willing to pay a premium for a framework keyboard like this.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#293

Post by Zuiii »

coldpie wrote: post #286
Zuiii wrote: post #285

Why do companies insist on messing with laptop keyboard layouts? Where's the menu key? Where are the Home, PgDn, PgUp, and End keys? I've used cheap sub 300-dollar laptops with keyboards more complete than this. The silver lining here is that Framework keyboards are replaceable in theory. I'll wait until a proper keyboard gets released.

> Where's the menu key? Seems gone. I can't say I've personally ever used it, so that's probably why it's one of the first keys to go, but I know that doesn't help you. > Where are the Home, PgDn, PgUp, and End keys? They're available via Fn+Arrow Cluster.

> Seems gone. I can't say I've personally ever used it

I rely on it heavily and I'm sure many others do to. I wish framework included the key in their study as well. Ether way, no menu key == no buy from me.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#294

Post by Snuupy »

kuschku wrote: post #146
Snuupy wrote: post #83

for the 16": - I would love an option to have upwards firing speakers where flex/numpad space goes instead (one on each side). - please improve the bass in the speakers. according to notebookcheck's review, framework speakers have poor/near 0 bass output. - please offer either a 1080p or 4k screen option on the 16". 1440p-ish screens with DPI scaling hackery is no fun and often leads to blurry UIs.

> DPI scaling hackery Under X11 with KDE, or under Windows, that's no problem whatsoever. 144dpi isn't any more hacky than 96dpi or 192dpi. It's only macOS, Gnome and Wayland that require 1x or 2x scaling (which is absolutely mind-bogglingly ridiculous, and anyone that contributed to that or encouraged that should be banned from ever touching UI code again).

For a trivial use case, try attaching a 1080p monitor to a 1440p laptop and open Microsoft word or task manager. Text will be blurry.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#295

Post by wkat4242 »

ris58h wrote: post #272
wkat4242 wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm Apple really put a ton of money into making their touch bar work and even they couldn't manage to make it actually useful. If they couldn't do it, framework has no chance. I would have been a lot less critical about the touch bar if it hadn't replaced the function key row though. That one is mandatory for me, and there was more than plenty room on MacBooks to have both at the same time.

Unpopular opinion: we shouldn't use F-keys at all except for old software like Midnight Commander. Alphanumeric shortcuts and Key Sequences should be used instead. http://xahlee.info/kbd/banish_key_chords.html

I totally disagree. I think direct shortcut keys without difficult to remember combinations are much preferable to me. And also much handier (e.g. when drinking something you can press a single button with the other hand).

For this reason I also use the big old 100% keyboards with numpads, and I remap the entire numpad to other functions such as a 3x3 desktop switcher. For me there can't be enough dedicated keys.

By the way the link you are quoting actually advocates using single keys as the ideal option :) It literally says the following:

> of these, in terms of efficiency and hand health (Repetitive Strain Injury), the single key is the best. Key sequence of single keys is second best. Key chord is the worst.

I suffer from RSI also which is another reason to prefer this.

However it is really a matter of preference of course. Some people love their 60% keyboards and that's ok too. Just won't work for me.

But what I disagree with is the "should be used" part. Nobody should tell me what to prefer :) This is one of the reasons I switched away from Apple. They are very strong in their opinions (to the point of actually building opinionated software).

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#296

Post by [deleted] »

AlexDragusin wrote: post #280
causi wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are there still only tiny slivered arrow keys when the palm rest is so big you could park a car on it?

Indeed, all the space could be used to fit a keyboard in this manner very nicely https://imgur.com/a/V0Ykw1D and make this and any laptop immensely more usable.

[deleted]

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#297

Post by wesapien »

Runways wrote: post #211
nrp wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’ve been very deliberate about making this not a traditional gaming laptop, but a laptop that can be configured with enough performance to play intense games. You can configure it without the Graphics Module and have a high-performance 16” notebook with reconfigurable input and easy repairability and upgradeabilty.

If you could make it so you can completely turn off the dGPU through software (boot menu?), pulling no power, it would be insane. I would love the power of a dGPU to play casually on trips but turn it off for normal use when I'm just working. Also, I LOVE that it wouldn't look like a gaming laptop. I'm tired of the gamer-esque design cues, even when they're subtle (RGB keyboards are okay if configurable).

Looks wise, it reminds me of my Legion 5i Pro 2022 if only for the back part (I/O, exhaust). There's more laptop behind the display unlike most laptop designs where the display is the edge.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#298

Post by Zak »

Leimi wrote: post #29
komadori wrote: post #8

I hope it's possible to fit a pointing stick (TrackPoint) keyboard within that 3.7mm, and that someone first- or third-party makes one. I'm keen to try replacing my ThinkPad with a Framework as soon as that's available, but not before.

Sadly I feel like trackpoints are really end of life and I wouldn't be surprised if Lenovo ditched them entirely soon. It seems they keep it only to please the tiny but vocal minority of tinkerers that we are. But we mostly buy old, second hand thinkpads. And as keyboards get thinner, trackpoints lose in quality. On linux it seems the software side is also not as good as before with libinput. So I'd be really surpris…

Sometimes it makes sense to stay in your niche. The Thinkpad is never going to be huge in the consumer market; being marginally thinner probably won't have a big impact in the institutional market; having the only decent pointing stick on the market is a deciding factor for a certain niche.

I'm trying to decide whether my next laptop will be a Framework or a Thinkpad. If the Framework was available with a pointing stick, the decision would be made. If the Thinkpad wasn't, the decision would be made. The other things that have attracted me to Thinkpads are repairability and Linux support, but Framework does those better.

I'm on my sixth Thinkpad, and there are definitely more out there with the same preferences.

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#299

Post by causi »

ris58h wrote: post #284
causi wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My ten inch Win Max 2 has 2x USB-C, 3x USB-A, HDMI, headphone jack, a full size SD card slot and a microSD slot, a 2280 m.2 slot and a 2230 m.2 slot. Demand better of your manufacturers.

Why should I demand if I don't use them?

If you don't, you shouldn't. But then why want a Framework?

Re: Framework Laptop 16

#300

Post by nrp »

tomberek wrote: post #227
nrp wrote: post #165

I’m happy to answer questions that folks have on this. There was also an earlier HN thread on our full launch event where we announced 13th Gen Intel Core and AMD Ryzen 7040 Series versions of the Framework Laptop 13, along with a bunch of other stuff: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35277660

I’ve loved my Framework so far and the excellent customer service. Is there still enough attention put into ensuring Linux compat? I’m especially interested in providing NixOS support as the Framework has been popular in that community.

Definitely. We have a dedicated member of the CX team focused on Linux support, along with a support agent who is also dedicated to it. Most of our lead engineers also use/dogfood Linux on their Framework Laptops daily. Mostly Ubuntu, but I believe one of our team members does use NixOS as their default.
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