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More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

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Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#291

Post by corbulo »

briHass wrote: post #132
alsaaro wrote: post #88

As someone who has worked two of the most intensive blue collar jobs, people should be wary of romanticizing blue collar work. Blue collar workers are expected to really work at their jobs. White collar workers can chill if there is no work to be done, or be sent home early with pay, or take a relaxation day and just browse the internet and listen to podcasts. They have perks, you see white collar workers leaving wor…

Anyone that hasn't done manual labor really has no idea how rough it can be. I worked as an office-furniture-mover in my early 20s (Summers in college), and some days were pretty tough. Granted, that's pretty low on the manual labor skills spectrum, but even for a guy in prime physical shape, it's tiring and has elements of danger. Now that I'm double that age, the manual labor I've done like rewiring my house, insta…

There are upsides, like a certain degree of pride from really feeling like you worked hard and going to bed truly tired. Those are the things I miss about that kind of job.

Going to bed as that particular kind of tired was just awesome.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#292

Post by bumby »

azinman2 wrote: post #40
pclmulqdq wrote: post #26

College seems to have ~3 uses from students' perspectives: 1. A trade school for technical professionals who actually need specialist education (scientists, engineers, lawyers, doctors, etc.) 2. A finishing school for the elite 3. A blood sports arena for the brilliant to complete for professorships (almost all of whom will lose and be saddled with 6 figures of debt and 7 figures of opportunity cost) A lot of people…

It also grows the intellectual souls, exposing people to far more depth of thought. It also builds professional networks. If a person is smart enough to receive it, more education is almost always good. Of course money is a factor, and schools have gotten insanely expensive. I’m glad to hear that more people are finding alternative routes - it shouldn’t be that everyone needs college because quite frankly many career…

>more education is almost always good

Yes, but we also need to be cognizant of the opportunity costs: 4 years of gainful, productive employment minus educational debt.

I don’t think university has a monopoly on education any longer. But they still maintain one on accreditation. As a society we need to take a hard look at what credentials certain degrees really need.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#293

Post by brightball »

alsaaro wrote: post #88

As someone who has worked two of the most intensive blue collar jobs, people should be wary of romanticizing blue collar work. Blue collar workers are expected to really work at their jobs. White collar workers can chill if there is no work to be done, or be sent home early with pay, or take a relaxation day and just browse the internet and listen to podcasts. They have perks, you see white collar workers leaving wor…

Depends on the job I think. Every person I know who does any type of home contracting work that I know of is drowning in business and raising rates because of it.

- HVAC

- Plumbing

- Electrical

- General Contractor

- Drywall specialists

- Roofers

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#295

Post by nonethewiser »

azinman2 wrote: post #40
pclmulqdq wrote: post #26

College seems to have ~3 uses from students' perspectives: 1. A trade school for technical professionals who actually need specialist education (scientists, engineers, lawyers, doctors, etc.) 2. A finishing school for the elite 3. A blood sports arena for the brilliant to complete for professorships (almost all of whom will lose and be saddled with 6 figures of debt and 7 figures of opportunity cost) A lot of people…

It also grows the intellectual souls, exposing people to far more depth of thought. It also builds professional networks. If a person is smart enough to receive it, more education is almost always good. Of course money is a factor, and schools have gotten insanely expensive. I’m glad to hear that more people are finding alternative routes - it shouldn’t be that everyone needs college because quite frankly many career…

> It also grows the intellectual souls, exposing people to far more depth of thought

It doesn’t uniquely do this. You don’t need college to have intellectual conversations or be exposed to new ideas.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#296

Post by castella »

azinman2 wrote: post #40
pclmulqdq wrote: post #26

College seems to have ~3 uses from students' perspectives: 1. A trade school for technical professionals who actually need specialist education (scientists, engineers, lawyers, doctors, etc.) 2. A finishing school for the elite 3. A blood sports arena for the brilliant to complete for professorships (almost all of whom will lose and be saddled with 6 figures of debt and 7 figures of opportunity cost) A lot of people…

It also grows the intellectual souls, exposing people to far more depth of thought. It also builds professional networks. If a person is smart enough to receive it, more education is almost always good. Of course money is a factor, and schools have gotten insanely expensive. I’m glad to hear that more people are finding alternative routes - it shouldn’t be that everyone needs college because quite frankly many career…

> It also grows the intellectual souls, exposing people to far more depth of thought.

As a (not so) recent grad from a top public university in the US - for STEM fields, absolutely. But from my exposure to the humanities and liberal arts side of the campus, be it gen ed classes or just day-to-day interactions with those students, it was far more like a brainwashing factory designed to churn out professional activists. Those classes were far more about rote memorization and regurgitation of the professor's political opinions than any sort of critical thinking; diverge from that "Overton window" and your grades will suffer.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#297

Post by comfypotato »

nonethewiser wrote: post #295
azinman2 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also grows the intellectual souls, exposing people to far more depth of thought. It also builds professional networks. If a person is smart enough to receive it, more education is almost always good. Of course money is a factor, and schools have gotten insanely expensive. I’m glad to hear that more people are finding alternative routes - it shouldn’t be that everyone needs college because quite frankly many career…

> It also grows the intellectual souls, exposing people to far more depth of thought It doesn’t uniquely do this. You don’t need college to have intellectual conversations or be exposed to new ideas.

This has changed over time. Probably simply because of the internet. It used to be harder to expose yourself to the variety of ideas and perspective that college did.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#298

Post by fschuett »

thomastjeffery wrote: post #143
hgsgm wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's only because almost everyone desirable goes there. If people stopped going, they could meet elsewhere.

The trouble is: where? The alternative is a variety of places, and practically all of them have some kind of tax; where it be coffee, alcohol, or some kind of membership fee. What we are missing is called, "the third place".

The third place is called "church" and it has been the center of socialization for 2000 years before western society replaced it with college and nightclubs.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#299

Post by nonethewiser »

Colleges are failing students. They pay lip service to the mission of education while prioritizing the growth in f administration.

How is it the cost of college has increased far faster than inflation yet learning outcomes haven’t improved? Student teacher ratios haven’t improved. Professor salaries haven’t improved. Real education (teachers and students) need to become the priority again.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#300

Post by [deleted] »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #26

College seems to have ~3 uses from students' perspectives: 1. A trade school for technical professionals who actually need specialist education (scientists, engineers, lawyers, doctors, etc.) 2. A finishing school for the elite 3. A blood sports arena for the brilliant to complete for professorships (almost all of whom will lose and be saddled with 6 figures of debt and 7 figures of opportunity cost) A lot of people…

[deleted]
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