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Replacing my MacBook Air M1 with a ThinkPad T480

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Re: Replacing my MacBook Air M1 with a ThinkPad T480

#291

Post by jrockway »

taylodl wrote: post #285
javaunsafe2019 wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But as it’s bad for the environment it’s even more important in 2023 to keep complaining about it.

But as it’s bad for the environment Is it? Thanks to the increased reliability that non-upgradeability confers I'm still using my 2012 MacBook Pro as my daily driver. I suspect there's a lot of minutia to tease out to verify whether this claim is actually true in the global case.

I agree with you. My computing requirements haven't changed significantly in a decade, so it is easy to pick a laptop that will meet them. Display technology is pretty much perfect; there is very little that is going to change in the life of your laptop, so you don't need to worry about the display becoming outdated. Laptop keyboards have been terrible since the first laptop ever, and that will remain true forever. CPU / memory / storage is also pretty easy to predict, and modern laptops are very competitive. (I would want 16 CPU, 64GB RAM, 4TB storage. Apple is happy to sell such a laptop, though I guess the CPU maxes out at 12 cores.)

For that reason, I don't see why you would expect to upgrade your laptop. I currently use a home-built workstation and rarely upgrade it. By the time the CPU is outdated and tired, you also want to swap the GPU. My 128GB of DDR4 is useless in the world of DDR5. So it's not like I get a ton of upgradeability by having a workstation. I can keep the case and the fans for the next build, saving me $150. Woo. (I have kept my NVMe SSDs forever, though. But they are inexpensive and "rsync" after the upgrade is not too onerous, so it's pretty reasonable. But, technology improves there too. I have PCIe-4, but my SSDs don't take advantage of it. So keeping them just gives me slower storage.)

The only thing you have to be careful about is sticker shock vs. future needs. Upgrade is pay later, but laptops are pay now. It hurts to price NVMe SSDs on Newegg and then pay Apple $2000 for it. That might be what people are talking about with "upgradeability"; "Apple is too expensive".

Re: Replacing my MacBook Air M1 with a ThinkPad T480

#292

Post by GuB-42 »

aniforprez wrote: post #160
petepete wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...except price and repairability. And keyboard.

Disagree. The M1 keyboards are just as good as any other keyboards now that they ditched the bad butterfly keyboards. I've used a Macbook with the older keyboards and they were certainly inferior to every single other laptop but the new keyboards I really can't complain about

> The M1 keyboards are just as good as any other keyboards

But ThinkPad keyboards are not "any other keyboards". For me, ThinkPads are the only laptops where I don't feel the need to connect an external keyboard. I'd say ThinkPad keyboards are as superior to typical laptop keyboards (including the MacBook keyboard) as Apple trackpads are superior to typical laptop trackpads (including the ThinkPad trackpad).

Re: Replacing my MacBook Air M1 with a ThinkPad T480

#293

Post by cpursley »

taylodl wrote: post #285
javaunsafe2019 wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But as it’s bad for the environment it’s even more important in 2023 to keep complaining about it.

But as it’s bad for the environment Is it? Thanks to the increased reliability that non-upgradeability confers I'm still using my 2012 MacBook Pro as my daily driver. I suspect there's a lot of minutia to tease out to verify whether this claim is actually true in the global case.

Exactly. My Apple products out-last non-Apple stuff by an order of magnitude (as much as I want to be on Android and Linux desktop).

Re: Replacing my MacBook Air M1 with a ThinkPad T480

#294

Post by dagw »

javaunsafe2019 wrote: post #279
taylodl wrote: post #277

It's been 11 years since Apple first released non-upgradeable laptops. Can we get over it already? If you want a laptop that you can upgrade then don't buy an Apple. If you don't like Apple's ecosystem then don't buy an Apple. This has been the advice for over 10 years now. There's nothing new here.

But as it’s bad for the environment it’s even more important in 2023 to keep complaining about it.

Based on highly unscientific observation, people tend to keep using old Apple laptops much longer than random Not Apple laptops.

Re: Replacing my MacBook Air M1 with a ThinkPad T480

#295

Post by magic_hamster »

taylodl wrote: post #284
magic_hamster wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously anyone will get the computer they want, well at least when you can. Sometimes you get stuck with a choice someone else made, like a company device. However, it is still useful to voice and especially to listen to criticism. Apple should be thankful that a lot of people are voicing their opinions. Getting this kind of feedback is priceless if they want to appeal to more people and grow their user base.

It's the same feedback Apple has been getting for 11 years now. There's nothing new here. I think Apple is well-aware that there are people who prefer an upgradeable laptop and not having to participate in the Apple ecosystem. I suspect Apple has data showing even more people prefer having a more reliable laptop (upgradeability tends to decrease reliability) and the perceived benefits of the Apple ecosystem - otherwi…

> I suspect Apple has data showing even more people prefer having a more reliable laptop (upgradeability tends to decrease reliability) and the perceived benefits of the Apple ecosystem

I wouldn't assume. Most Apple users I know conform with their devices one way or another (I used to be one of them myself). This could be just one more thing they can live without but would still rather have than not.

Apple won't decide something based on criticism alone or even based on what people want. They decide based on what will net bigger profit. In this case, you can just as easily guess that Apple has data showing that while overpriced parts, hostile repair policy and lack of upgradability bother everyone, all of these contribute massively to the bottom line and are not enough to drive people away en masse.

However, criticism is still important since it can help in some decisions where it can be the determining factor or the missing nudge towards one direction over the other.

Re: Replacing my MacBook Air M1 with a ThinkPad T480

#296

Post by stinkytaco »

taylodl wrote: post #284
magic_hamster wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously anyone will get the computer they want, well at least when you can. Sometimes you get stuck with a choice someone else made, like a company device. However, it is still useful to voice and especially to listen to criticism. Apple should be thankful that a lot of people are voicing their opinions. Getting this kind of feedback is priceless if they want to appeal to more people and grow their user base.

It's the same feedback Apple has been getting for 11 years now. There's nothing new here. I think Apple is well-aware that there are people who prefer an upgradeable laptop and not having to participate in the Apple ecosystem. I suspect Apple has data showing even more people prefer having a more reliable laptop (upgradeability tends to decrease reliability) and the perceived benefits of the Apple ecosystem - otherwi…

I skeptical that non upgradability increases reliability. I have never heard this claim before. I have heard it decreases thickness and weight, both of which people might like, but increasing reliability? How much of that can just be attributed to improved components as manufacturing gets more sophisticated?

I think this is just down to most people not caring. I like the idea of upgradability as an abstract concept, but didn't necessarily use the options when available.

Re: Replacing my MacBook Air M1 with a ThinkPad T480

#297

Post by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK »

cpursley wrote: post #293
taylodl wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But as it’s bad for the environment Is it? Thanks to the increased reliability that non-upgradeability confers I'm still using my 2012 MacBook Pro as my daily driver. I suspect there's a lot of minutia to tease out to verify whether this claim is actually true in the global case.

Exactly. My Apple products out-last non-Apple stuff by an order of magnitude (as much as I want to be on Android and Linux desktop).

That's because they are more expensive, not because Apple is slower on innovation.

Re: Replacing my MacBook Air M1 with a ThinkPad T480

#298

Post by eptcyka »

taylodl wrote: post #277

It's been 11 years since Apple first released non-upgradeable laptops. Can we get over it already? If you want a laptop that you can upgrade then don't buy an Apple. If you don't like Apple's ecosystem then don't buy an Apple. This has been the advice for over 10 years now. There's nothing new here.

Why do you feel the need to defend apple in this case?

Re: Replacing my MacBook Air M1 with a ThinkPad T480

#299

Post by hochul-azul »

The only reason I elect Apple is because it has an OS that isn't Windows and isn't Linux. I spend a lot of time fixing other people's operating system problems, I don't want to do it at home.

There is no way I will ever again run Linux as a daily driver. I had to do it a decade ago, and it was fine. It isn't fine now.

Re: Replacing my MacBook Air M1 with a ThinkPad T480

#300

Post by realworldperson »

prmoustache wrote: post #115
buro9 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spreadsheets are owned by Finance and Accounting - I'm in Eng and wouldn't be able to get them to let go of Windows + Excel.

You can still convert back your data to csv or xlsx once you finished your work on it. Most db clients actually support that.

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