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Piracy - You can't have your cake and eat it

broadmuse.com

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Re: Piracy - You can't have your cake and eat it

#291
post #284
post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking from experience, piracy has a very strong influence on how much money video game companies are willing to spend on development. Piracy is the reason that PC gamers have to put up with games that are primarily designed for consoles, with very little invested in adapting them to a PC interface. Few companies are willing to spend money on PC development when you can only expect a few hundred thousand sales.

> Speaking from experience, piracy has a very strong influence on how much money video game companies are willing to spend on development. The PC gaming market is very healthy, probably healthier than ever, so I honestly do not know what you are talking about here. Triple-A games aren't targeted to consoles because of pirates, they are targeted to consoles because consumer demand is higher for console games. Only a f…

> Triple-A games aren't targeted to consoles because of pirates, they are targeted to consoles because consumer demand is higher for console games.

The estimated PC install base for one of the console-led titles I've worked on is in the same ballpark as each of the consoles.* The actual sales on PC, however, were far, far less than the consoles.

* We know this due to, e.g. number of people pinging the multiplayer servers, checking for updates etc.

Re: Piracy - You can't have your cake and eat it

#292
post #51

Ok. I hope I'm not going against the rules of HN discourse here but I'd like to go out on a limb and say any article in which the author doesn't bother capitalizing the first word in his sentences is not an article I'm going to bother to read. One of the few things I miss about the world before the internet is a proper adherence to grammar. If he were ESL, I would be more forgiving, but this post just smacks of lazy…

It's obviously a deliberate choice, there are no capital letters on his entire site. I don't know much about the OP but in the design world the style isn't that alien. It originated in the 20s and 30s in the Bauhaus, Herbert Bayer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Bayer was one of the more prominent supporters, designing typefaces that contained no uppercase letterforms at all. He even experimented with designing…

That's fine for typeset print where other aids to scanning are used, such as a double space between sentences. HTML, though, removes the double space. Which means you have to consciously read every single word rather than scan and parse it in bulk.

To a fast reader, without visual cues it is a jumbled mess. I gave up after forcing myself to read three sentences.

Re: Piracy - You can't have your cake and eat it

#293
post #25

I don't really understand these posts that simply declare that the correct choice is not to use their stuff, that piracy is wrong, and it's not your choice. I happen to agree with the overall conclusion that one should seek alternatives in these cases, but this is just an argument by shouting. It's foolish to simply declare, "it's not your choice". Clearly, people think it is their choice. If you want to convince the…

People don't understand how Ethics works. On the anti-piracy side there are two groups: The first are artists who believe, without any evidence, that they can make more money when copyright is enforced. The second are people start out assuming that the right to control information is a moral right. They then derive the ethical implication that people shouldn't pirate. On the pro-file sharing side there are two groups…

> Every piece of evidence not created by the middle-man industry I've ever seen has supported their position.

Links?

Re: Piracy - You can't have your cake and eat it

#294
Will has a good point, but I disagree on a fundamental level.

There's three massive core problems with the current media model:

1) Modern media has failed to adapt. When I reinstalled windows I used a pirated version. The key on the side of my case was awkward to read. Games industry nailed it: look at Steam. 2) Entertainment is a waste of time and people know that - if someone can't download a movie they're not going to run out and buy it. They're going to watch cats fall down on youtube. 3) When companies no longer prioritize their own products people lose respect for them.

This SOPA/PIPA drama is simply making #3 worse

Re: Piracy - You can't have your cake and eat it

#295
post #273
post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking from experience, piracy has a very strong influence on how much money video game companies are willing to spend on development. Piracy is the reason that PC gamers have to put up with games that are primarily designed for consoles, with very little invested in adapting them to a PC interface. Few companies are willing to spend money on PC development when you can only expect a few hundred thousand sales.

Can you know that developers would put in more money into ports if piracy was eliminated and they had more sales at no cost to them?

Yes, absolutely. The fact that PC sales are normally very low (around a tenth) of console sales for the same title and games without multiplayer are pirated at a much higher rate than multiplayer games is common knowledge and entirely uncontroversial within the game development industry, and always factors into decisions about how much money to invest in PC titles. Pretty much all the major shifts in PC gaming since the late '90s - cheap console ports, the emphasis on multiplayer, MMOs, Steam, etc - have been responses to piracy.

Re: Piracy - You can't have your cake and eat it

#296
The answer to the author is two fold:

1) laws are made to be challeneged, especially if society does not approve. See alextingle's response.

2) If I make a widget in a widget factory. You can get widgets from me or from Frank down the block. Getting it from Frank is illegal. However to use the widget (that you love) you must stick a pipe in your ass. Frank gives it to you at a bargain price and no pipe in ass requirements. The only way to tell me "its not ok to overcharge me and force me to stick pipes in my ass, even if I love the product" is to buy it from Frank. Otherwise you buy it from me, live with the ass-pipe and pray for change.

Re: Piracy - You can't have your cake and eat it

#297
post #284
post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking from experience, piracy has a very strong influence on how much money video game companies are willing to spend on development. Piracy is the reason that PC gamers have to put up with games that are primarily designed for consoles, with very little invested in adapting them to a PC interface. Few companies are willing to spend money on PC development when you can only expect a few hundred thousand sales.

> Speaking from experience, piracy has a very strong influence on how much money video game companies are willing to spend on development. The PC gaming market is very healthy, probably healthier than ever, so I honestly do not know what you are talking about here. Triple-A games aren't targeted to consoles because of pirates, they are targeted to consoles because consumer demand is higher for console games. Only a f…

The PC gaming market is almost entirely multiplayer games, console ports, republished older releases, flash games, and independent games sold through Steam. Almost no one is investing significant budgets in easily pirated, single-player PC games. I'm not saying the PC gaming market is unhealthy or dying, but you should realize that every decision PC game developers make is driven by the need to make money in spite of rampant piracy. The OP asked for evidence that piracy has an effect on business decisions - it definitely does for PC games. In fact, I think it's probably the most important factor.

Re: Piracy - You can't have your cake and eat it

#298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the same time, some positions are clearly less informed than others. And there seem to a fair number of mindless idiots on either side, serving no purpose aside from getting the mindless idiots on the other side so riled up that the screaming din makes intelligent debate exceedingly difficult in any remotely public setting. The reality is that copyright law evolved over the course of three centuries during which t…

I would put your position into the "clearly less informed" camp, sorry. Copyright originally was created as a legal concept shortly after the invention of the printing press* because individual small printers were making and selling copies of other people's books. At that time (about 400 years ago), there were no "well capitalized industrialists." The industrial revolution had not even happened yet, and the few corpo…

Dude, you're hilarious.

I mean, here you are calling people "uninformed" while asserting that the printing press was invented "about 400 years ago", which would be around 1612. In reality Gutenberg's press went into operation around 1450. That's 562 years ago, meaning you're off by more than a century and a half.

You do a bit better with copyright law. The first appearance of law that grants the right to copy to the author was, of course, the Statue of Anne (1709/10, depending on whether you're referring to the Julian calendar that was in effect in England at the time, or the Gregorian calendar which has since become the international standard). Here, you're only off by a century.

Unfortunately for your theory, it's a century in the wrong direction. In reality, there were a solid 260 years between the appearance of the press, and the emergence of individual copyright, and that's not "shortly after" by any definition.

Even if you start the clock in 1493, which is when the publishing business as such really came into its own with Anton Koberger, you're still off by a factor of more than 200 years. So any idea that individual copyright appeared as an immediate and necessary consequence of the press's invention is unsupported by the facts, as is the idea that there's never been a significant amount of time in which one existed without the other.

For the record, the rest of your theory is as sketchy as your grasp of history - especially the bit about protecting "thought and opinion". Those are two things that Copyright absolutely DOES NOT protect. Nor has it ever. So clearly you've still got a lot of work to do, but that's all the time we have today.

Class dismissed.

Re: Piracy - You can't have your cake and eat it

#299
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens if everybody eats mince pie on Christmas? Life goes on as usual. What happens if nobody pays for a copy of Windows 8? There won't be a Windows 9. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_rider_problem

What happens if everyone in the entire world only reads books from libraries? This is not a new problem, nor is it without solutions.

You can't compare libraries to copying because you keep your copy forever.

Re: Piracy - You can't have your cake and eat it

#300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would put your position into the "clearly less informed" camp, sorry. Copyright originally was created as a legal concept shortly after the invention of the printing press* because individual small printers were making and selling copies of other people's books. At that time (about 400 years ago), there were no "well capitalized industrialists." The industrial revolution had not even happened yet, and the few corpo…

Dude, you're hilarious. I mean, here you are calling people "uninformed" while asserting that the printing press was invented "about 400 years ago", which would be around 1612. In reality Gutenberg's press went into operation around 1450. That's 562 years ago, meaning you're off by more than a century and a half. You do a bit better with copyright law. The first appearance of law that grants the right to copy to the…

Bonus error:

"At that time (about 400 years ago), there were no "well capitalized industrialists...and the few corporations that existed at all were captives of the sovereign rulers who created them."

Again, not so! Indeed, 400 years ago is when some of the fierest and best capitalized industrialists known to man emerged. Specifically, I'm talking about the Dutch East India Company - a private corporation which commanded a heavily armed fleet several times larger than those of the competing French and British Crowns combined. And it was wind-powered industrialization that supported the assembly-line techniques that made their ship yards so incredibly productive.

Obviously, theirs was a relatively limited enterprise - certainly nothing compared to what we now refer to as the Industrial Revolution. But that difference is a function of having wind rather than coal to run their mills, not the application of the techniques, or the systematic accumulation and pooling of capital needed to apply them. In terms of the capital-intensive industrial operations needed to run them, and a chartered corporation to manage it, the VOC (as it was known) was a force unlike any the world had seen, utterly dominating both the global trade routes to the East Indies, and the flow of commerce moving through their ports. Phillip II of Spain waged a furious fight to maintain his colonies in the Netherlands, but the idea that he did so successfully is the opposite of reality. When the Dutch finally sued for peace, they did so as a republic.

Getting back to the press - while I mentioned that the business aspect of if got off the ground in 1493, Anton Koberger's family didn't continue it when he died. Though it was profitable, it remained baffling to his relatives, who had - and continued - to trade in gold. In terms of the flow of ideas, the most influential presses emerged in Venice. This was a city that had it's own long history with industrialization. Specifically, the Arsenal, which is where it pioneered the heavy industrial techniques needed to build the fleets with which it dominated the Mediterranean throughout the Crusades.

This unmatched foundation in assembly-line work was easily transferred to publishing operations, which the Venetians also turned into an industry. It would be some time before work of equal quality and sophistication was produced North of the Alps. And Venice, of course, was a republic. Kings (and Popes, and Princes) were dominated by the Venetians, not vice versa.

Incidentally, nobody who actually knows what they're talking about refers to Kings as "sovereigns" until after 1648, and the Peace of Westphalia, which is what established the concept of the sovereign state as such; one (theoretically) secure in its borders and (again, theoretically) free from the external authority of the Pope. Ergo, the sovereignty.

Given the general magnitude of your historical ignorance, this must seem like a minor point, but still. I actually do know about this stuff, and hearing references to "sovereigns" operating in the early 17th century is like nails on a chalkboard. It's a bit like hearing people discus life in the "American States" circa 1720.

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